Update: Verizon reportedly scraps plans to acquire WIND and Mobilicity

Ian Hardy

August 14, 2013 8:56pm

Massive United States carrier Verizon had expressed interest in entering the Canadian wireless space, potentially acquiring either WIND Mobile or Mobilicity. Fran Shammo, Verizon CFO, recently confirm his intentions and stated “we’re looking at the opportunity. This is just us dipping our toe in the water.”

Speculation ran wild over the past few weeks that caused the incumbent players (Rogers, Bell and TELUS) – who collectively control approximately 90% of the wireless subscribers in Canada – to act out in a plea to government officials and ‘misinformed Canadians’ to close the ‘policy loopholes’ that would see valuable spectrum favour foreign investors, which they ultimately believe would ‘have massive consequences for Canadians.”

Call it fate, or possibly a massive bluff, but the Globe and Mail is now reporting that Verizon is suddenly ‘putting off’ its potential acquisition of WIND and Mobilicity until the spectrum auction on January 14th. Verizon can still show interest in participating in the 700 MHz spectrum auction by dropping down a refundable deposit by September 17th.

The Globe stated that “It is not clear is what prompted the strategic change, and what it says about Verizon’s long-term ambitions. The shift could signify that Verizon is still interested in Canada but is trying to further drive down the price of Wind and Mobilicity.” Earlier reports indicated the Verizon had placed an early offer for WIND Mobile for $700-million, which would include their spectrum and 620,000+ subscriber base.

It’ll be interesting to see the fate of both Mobilicity and WIND.

Update: According to the latest report, Tony Lacavera, WIND Mobile’s Chairman and CEO, is considering buying competing struggling carrier Mobilicity. This news comes straight after Verizon’s declining interest to purchase WIND or Mobilicity. The OC states that Lacavera will take “another look at Mobilicity since there could be one less bidder for it,” but also “believes Verizon is keeping all doors open until it has to put down a deposit on Sept. 17 to participate in the spectrum auction in January.”

When TELUS’ proposed $380 million acquisition of Mobilicty was denied, Lacavera at the time stated that there was “renewed opportunity for discussion” to purchase Mobilicity. Perhaps now is the right time.

  • radapple

    NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Super_Deluxe

      So the question now is, how much did the big 3 pay them to back out? These seems a bit fishy!

    • Plazmic Flame

      Nah, pretty sure Verizon just saw the circus that was going on here and realized they have more subscribers than all the Canadian telcos combined. Realizing they are on a bigger level and don’t have time to play games.

    • DaveySmash

      Agreed. But it’s still very discouraging.

      My only issue with this is that Canadians (unlike what the big 3 Telcoms are saying) had a lot of hope in having more competition come into the market. I hope they reconsider and still bid when the auction opens up.

      Maybe they’re just being more quiet about it, to throw off the Canadian Telcoms, so that they can stop being bullies and let the market do what it does best.

    • mouser

      or hopefully big cousin Vodafone comes in instead?

    • Fawoo

      “Verizon is suddenly ‘putting off’ its potential acquisition of WIND and Mobilicity until the spectrum auction on January 14th. Verizon can still show interest in participating in the 700 MHz spectrum auction by dropping down a refundable deposit by September 17th.”

      It can still happen. If Globe is correct, then by the 17th of September we’ll have our answer and possibly a new entrant. I can see why Verizon wouldn’t want to acquire Wind/Mobilicity until the auction, but I don’t think the Auction is going to yield the results Verizon wants.

      Oh well, at least now perhaps other entrants have taken a peek at our market and found ways to enter, and see that Canadian consumers are demanding more competition.

    • Canadaboy

      Verizon enters the 700 MHz auction and picks up bandwidth everywhere. Wind and Mobility, under funded pick up no new spectrum. Valuations on the W&M plummet as they are only worth their existing spectrum, assumption being users will migrate to better bandwidth. Verizon either launches fresh, or makes new bid at cheaper rate for W&M. This way, if Verizon fails to pick up enough spectrum, they are not burdened with a mobile company they don’t want and has little potential. If they succeed at the spectrum, then W&M become targets because they have a lot of cell sites already negotiated, making roll out for the new Verizon business quick.

    • JTon

      This is a beautiful piece of strategy. I much enjoyed your insight. An alternative explanation is Verizon received the results of a much more thorough ROI and they are getting skiddish. No one knows. Bay street is going nuts

    • Josh Brown

      Verizon would face the Same, if not worst problems that Wind does. The 700mhz spectrum is not enough to build a network on. It is great for rural areas, it gives deep penetration and long distances, but you can not carry the data on 700mhz that you can on AWS. They need Wind or their spectrum. The Big cities would kill the bandwidth of 700mhz.

    • Eric Houstoun

      this is a factually correct and oft overlooked detail.

      700mhz is good for travelling further, it does however, suffer from not being able to wield high bandwidth.

  • The Spaniard

    Well that seriously sucks!!

  • jb

    Its sad in a sense because there was potential for competition from a major player in wireless….but realistically we don’t know what the outcome would have been…

    Just like Canadians wanted change in the form of 2yr contracts, now they hold more expensive monthly fees…

    Change is not always for the better…

    • Peter

      its much simpler than that. Anytime you have over regulation it results in higher fees. Just as we saw with 2 year contracts being the max.

    • Dave

      You need both, Regulation & Competition.

    • Dave

      So you saying that the three years contract was better? LOL. Interesting logic.

    • jb

      No…I’m not on any contract so it doesn’t matter much to me…but a lot of users on this site complained about the high prices when the 2 yr contracts were announced..after begging for them and not thinking about the potential consequences…

      This is the same situation… We all want better prices and competition, but we don’t know if or how Verizon could bring that to us…

    • Dave

      it’s two separate things. There is no question that consumers life will be better without contracts at all.

      Verizon coming to Canada would probably bring competition, that’s all.

  • Gabriel Calderon

    It will probably still happen, they are just waiting it out in order to get a lower price for wind and mobi, Smart move on their part since time is against the struggling companies…

  • mani

    A big competition is Coming hopefully ;)

    • Dave

      No one say they are not coming, but they waiting about Wind Mobile. That’s all. Just a drama of nothing.

  • MXM4K

    One way or another, the spectrum that is set aside for new entrants will stay with a non-Big 3 company for the foreseable future. This will ensure that some competition (even if it’s only localized) to continue for a while. Now let’s just hope that the small guys don’t fold anytime soon.

  • JL

    Look at the ownership of The Globe and Mail – 15% being Bell Canada. Hopefully that’s simply coincidence.

    • thedosbox

      Um, they were also among the first to report that Verizon were interested in the Canadian market.

      But hey, never let reality get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

    • Peter

      lol, awesome reply

    • Josh Brown

      True but it was in their best interest to bring light to Verizon entering Canada. Because they wanted to get the Propaganda machine going. If they didn’t make it a huge story then no one would understand the Fair for Canadian Commercials.

    • Dave

      lol, awesome reply

    • Dave

      PR= Public Relations.

      As you said, the fact that they were the first ones to publish it was because they thought it will serve their own interest.

    • thedosbox

      Insert picture of a facepalm here. I’m not going to try and argue with the twisted mind of a typical conspiracy buff.

  • Ontari_do_not

    well thank goodness Robellus spent the money to fight against this… now my bill will go up, AGAIN.

    • Josh Brown

      Well they have to pay for that commercial time some how (even though it was on they’re own TV and Radio stations)

      Rogers to introduce a FFCC Fee (Fair for Canadians Comercial Fee) $13 a month to cover any propaganda costs they have to spew out to save their profits.

    • canuck07

      they don’t need to pay a cent. They own all the godamn stations

    • Josh Brown

      I know that was the joke. They are just always looking for away to screw us out of another $10.

    • anjew

      they lose revenue from another ad that could have been aired.. thats the same as paying.

    • T1MB0T

      no I don;t think it will go up.. winds 470k subs will help offset the costs! ha ha

  • ns.dev

    Victory bill increases for everyone!

    • A. Avanzado

      LOL Next month, you will be seeing a victory surcharge of $4.99 per month

    • ns.dev

      Government “mandated” system victory fee: $4.99
      Fair for Canada mandatory tax: $9.99
      Allowing competition in the Canadian market: Priceless.

  • Matthew Koivisto

    WIND and Mobilicity both use equipment that is not compatible with the Verizon network – so they would have had to replace it all anyway. Why replace when they can come in and buy spectrum and then build their own organic network from scratch! my guess is as soon as they open their doors in the Verizon stores they will have easily made up the 620,000+ customers. I know I will be in line!

    • MSined

      Verizon’s goal wouldn’t be to have compatible networks. That’s not the point.
      The point would be to buy the struggling carriers (and the spectrum they already own) for a good value and then try to turn it into a competitive carrier that steals customers away from the big 3.

    • Stephen_81

      How does Verizon turn a profit on that?

    • oceansaber

      By charging less than what Robellus does, and make more profit than from their own main operating country?

    • Stephen_81

      They Can’t run the Canadian operation at a loss. it must be profitable for them to perform their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.

      And Canadians seem to think they’ll attempt to expand nation wide and not be focused to just urban centres like WIND has been which again comes with great costs, they need to get their ROI out pretty quickly

    • tamper

      Are you not familiar with the international trade concept of ‘dumping’? Companies often operate at a loss outside their home market for strategic reasons. They use profits from their home secure market to subsidize their ventures outside their own country.

      Go read about how Rogers Cable operated their former cable subsidiary in the US. Canadians were subsidizing freebies and giveaways to American customers for years.

    • accord1999

      That wouldn’t be possible considering Verizon charges more and have a higher operating profit margin in the USA than the Big 3 do in Canada.

    • ScooterinAB

      Although I’m not entirely convinced that any company can turn and sustain a profit in this market at this point, Verizon, Wind, and even Moblicity (though it’s a stretch) can turn a profit. For Wind, it means increasing their rate plans in order to double their ARPU. Moblicity could do the same, though they need far more revenue to escape their horrible debts. Verizon could quite easily turn a profit on a new network or one picked up from a failed new entrant. They just need to charge money while leaving their $40 service fee at the border.

      tamper sort of has it on the head. Verizon (or any foreign company entering the market) would have to dip into their wallets in order to operate in this country (or really any). It’s likely that they’d be running at a loss for at least a year.

      An earlier comment about Verizon holding out to see how the Spectrum Auction pans out is an interesting thought. A devalued Wind/Moblicity would be a better buy, providing they don’t fold by then.

      An interesting situation. All it means is that Verizon isn’t entering the market yet. Hopefully never, but that remains to be seen and is just my opinion.

    • anjew

      by bringing better value with north american roaming, it gives them the edge over the other US cellco’s. They may not make money here in canada initially, but they may benefit much sooner from the US market.

    • Stephen_81

      I can agree on the North America roaming strategy being a US benefit, BUT the ROI on that benefit would have Verizon sticking to Business centre locations so not being much better than WIND currently is at deploying outside of urban centres.

    • deltatux

      It would be counter-productive for Verizon to plop down outdated CDMA technologies in a GSM dominant market anyways. Even Bell and TELUS figured out that CDMA is not the way to go for 3G so they switched to GSM-based HSPA networks that they now share.

      Even Verizon is phasing out CDMA-based technologies for GSM-based LTE technology. Most devices on the market are GSM capable if they support LTE. Makes no sense for Verizon to rebuild what has already been built and supported, a GSM-based HSPA network that Mobilicity and WIND has. Bell and TELUS only maintains their CDMA network for legacy reasons, you don’t see them selling much phones (if at all) that are CDMA based as they are still transitioning people to their GSM-based HSPA network.

      The only telecom I can think of that’s pushing forward with CDMA would be Public Mobile, the only CDMA network to run on the PCS G band (1910/1990 MHz).

    • Josh Brown

      UGH

      HSPA is “based on GSM” but is not compatible this is taken from the Wiki page:

      Under UMTS:

      “Unlike EDGE (IMT Single-Carrier, based on GSM) and CDMA2000 (IMT Multi-Carrier), UMTS requires new base stations and new frequency allocations.”

      Under LTE:

      “The LTE wireless interface is incompatible with 2G and 3G networks, so that it must be operated on a separate wireless spectrum.”

      And anyone that says it is to hard to switch to LTE from HSPA should look at how fast T-Mobile is doing it in the states right now, but it does require equipment change no matter what network you use.

      Also GSM and LTE are not the same technology so it requires the same investment, for CDMA or GSM or HSPA.

      Motorola has equipment on the market that can be installed in the shed below to allow LTE to piggy back off of existing antennas. It will still be expensive but it is expensive for GSM and CDMA.

      They are already launching VOLTE phones in the USA. They would just restrict everyone in Canada to those phones. They use 700mhz for LTE in the states and are very soon rolling out AWS LTE in major centers. If they get 700mhz and convert AWS up here to LTE then it would be the same network. In fact they are not going to sell CDMA voice phones by next year in the USA. So by the time they have entered Canada you will not be able to buy one in the USA either.

    • Canadaboy

      The reason to buy W&M at this time isn’t the spectrum or the customers, it would be the already negotiated cell tower sites that they could put new equipment on. Tower licensing and placement is a pain.

  • MXH070

    The question is how much did robelus spend and how long is it going to take us paying customers to pay that bill for them with higher rates.

  • James Arsenault

    Verizon is fed up with big 3 whiners that’s why.

    • Stephen K

      Do you really think they cared?

    • Prashanna Kandiah

      VERIZON Original PLAN was to get WIND/MOBILITY and than enter the 700MHz SPECTRUM auction
      PLAN B get the 700MHz SPECTRUM first than get WIND/MOBILITY Smart Move on there hand NOW THE BIG 3 NEED SHUT UP NOW
      now the big 3 going increase the price after the campaign won

      WE HAVE WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR WHEN VERIZON ARRIVE here :(

    • rivard35

      most people are grandfathered into their 3 year better then 2 years plans

    • Peter

      I think they feared that at some point the Big 3 would ask for access to the US markets. They would rather play by the rules and not provoke something like that

    • Josh Brown

      Verizon would not be afraid of Rogers. Even T-moble has 5 times the subscriber base and Verizon has 10 times.

  • Stephen_81

    Man I hope this is True! Canada needs a new kind of Player, not just a bigger version of Bell/Rogers/Telus coming in and taking our money out of country.

    For anyone who was all for Verizon coming to Canada, why don’t you do something even better? Go to your WIND provider and get a bigger Plan, spend that extra $10 a month and get your friends and Family to switch, why not make WIND profitable with their different ways of doing things than hoping that Verizon will come to Canada and for some reason be charitable and not care about their stock holders.

    • MXH070

      Wind gas ZERO coverage outside the big city

    • Stephen_81

      And what makes you think that Verizon would have done more to expand out of Big Cities?

      I don’t live in a WIND zone so I am well aware that they suck, and am well aware that Any new entrant is just going to cost me crazy amounts of money because the Big 3 wont lower pricing in my area, they’ll tack on some service fee to have a 705 area code I’m sure.

      It would make no sense for a Major carrier to come into Canada and not do just like WIND and focus on the big cities first, screw rural Canada we don’t have enough people to actually matter to them. and Urban Canadians like to pretend we don’t exist

    • Josh Brown

      Because they have the best coverage in the USA, that is their MO. Imagine the comercials in USA and Canada, “Best coverage in All of North America.”

    • JTon

      It’s possible. Population density here might make it not worth it. I’d love to see how they crunch their numbers

    • MisterChew

      LOL Stephen_81, Have you seen the coverage map of Verizon? They have the BEST COVERAGE in the U.S., which covers many small towns and rural area, better than AT&T, T-MOBILE, and Sprint. Get your facts together man.

  • Stephen K

    Well, meh. With Verizon, The big 3 would of become the big 4. There would of not been any change in the long run other then some of our money going to the states. Might as well keep it in Canada.

    • Peter

      Agreed,

    • hyperhyper

      Might as well say Big 1. They all act in unison and don’t stray far from their agreed to status quos. Some people think “better the devil you know than the devil you don’t know” but I am of the opinion: “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Robelus has crapped and dumped on us long enough and I would be happy to see them taken down a peg or 5.

    • Ricky

      Exaclty, it will just become big4 and all the cheap Wind price plan will be gone in a long run and Verizon’s price plan are as expensive as the big3. I really don’t see any good about Verizon coming in for the customers, except that they will just have another expenisve price plan to choose from.

    • MisterChew

      Great assumption.

    • William

      It is really sad seeing people like Stephen and Ricky posting. Such self-centred, know-it-all types so fearful of any change, with a defeated look on life.

  • Martini

    Perhaps Verizon is interested in starting up from scratch on their own?.

    • wildspin

      I’d rather go ahead and bid for Rogers or build up the stake in Telus once again. LOL

    • Guest

      Well, it’s a good thing you’re not Verizon, then.

  • TB

    Verizon got wind (no pun intended) of the Bellus plan to shut down CDMA as soon as then entered the Canadian market. Without access to the Bellus CDMA network they are dead in the water since all their phones require it for voice, and older ones require if for all services.

    Verizon also knows there is nothing they can do to stop Bellus from doing this. Even if Verizon bids on 700Mhz they are still screwed if they don’t have access to 800 or 1900Mhz CDMA in Canada if Bellus shuts it down.

    • wildspin

      Verizon already has plan to shut down 2G/3G CDMA by 2021 in their home market altogether so this isn’t an issue/concern.

    • TB

      That’s true but what about the next 8 years?, without access to a 800/1900Mhz CDMA network in Canada it’s a no-go other than a grab of some 700mhz in the auction (which will be shared with the big 3 for a CDMA roaming agreement…..)

    • Josh Brown

      They are already launching VOLTE phones in the USA. They would just restrict everyone in Canada to those phones. They use 700mhz for LTE in the states and are very soon rolling out AWS LTE in major centers. If they get 700mhz and convert AWS up here to LTE then it would be the same network. In fact they are not going to sell CDMA voice phones by next year in the USA. So by the time they have entered Canada you will not be able to buy one in the USA either.

    • kkritsilas

      Verizon doesn’t need CDMA. They will begin the process of bringing down their own CDMA network at the end of this year, and will be an LTE only company at the end of 2014. Verizon no longer sells CDMA only phones, and in 2014 will be selling only LTE phones. The Telus/Bell CDMA network will also be out of service by the end of 2014, according to my Telus corporate rep.

    • TB

      So if Canada is such an untapped market full of Verizon potential then why aren’t they plowing ahead with the Wind purchase?

      Despite Verizon’s size they will still run into the same operating cost issues that all Canadian companies have to deal with and prices will likely not be much cheaper than the big 3 are offering currently.

      Everyone is upset about having only 3 national phone companies and call it a monopoly but we should be focusing on the real monopoly

      TIM HORTON’s!

      When is my caffeine laced beverage going to get cheaper?, astronomical market, poor working conditions, profits, etc….

  • hoo dat

    Well, I guess that knocks the final nail into Mobilicity’s coffin then.

    • Stephen_81

      I REALLY Hope Mobilicity subscribers jump over to WIND quickly, help make WIND realize they don’t need to be for sale, though I think they’d need double Mobiliciies subscriber base to get the numbers to make their debt look manageable without help from parents

    • Peter

      Yup, their plan all along was to be bought out, now that the conservatives have prevented the big three from buying them, they really could lose everything and get nothing in return. Quite a sad day for the free market.

    • Verdic

      Well, they were allowed to buy spectrum for cheap. So why should they get to just flip spectrum?

      Imagine you sell a house to a buddy for cheap, then he tries to flip your house for a lot more afterwards. Or you could be smart like the government, and tell him that as long as he lives in the house he can have it for cheap, but he is not allowed to flip it. Helping someone out is not the same as getting ripped off.

    • kkritsilas

      Wind and Mobilicity paid for their spectrum. The Big 3 didn’t. On top of that, the Big 3 were allowed to collect “system access fees” for over 20 years, which not only paid for the actual networks, but their maintenance, too. The amount of revenues that the Big 3 got from the “system access fees” not only paid for network maintenance, it will do so for the next 20 years at least. Wind and Mobilicity are paying out for spectrum, and a network roll out while charging customers $40/month.

    • TB

      The big 3 didn’t pay for their spectrum?, they didn’t pay for the original 850Mhz but that was to offset the cost of installing AMPS but everything since then was been auctioned.

    • kkritsilas

      The first spectrum auction to happen in Canada was in 2008 with the AWS auction. The big 3 didn’t pay for 850MHz, nor did they pay for the 1800/1900 MHz. And, the 850 MHz is what enabled the Big 3 to build out more cost effective networks because 850 MHz has a larger coverage area per tower (given the same antenna gain and RF power) than either of the 1700 MHz (AWS) band owned by Wind/Mobiicty) or their own 1800/1900 MHz bands. This is the prmary reason that the upcoming 700MHz specturm auction will be such a big deal; the 700MHz spectrum has even more coverage per tower than even the 850 Mhz spectrum does.

      Even so, Bell and Telus further minimized their risk by building out a joint network. Not only do the Big 3 own the better spectrum, they are not even using a lot of it. Rogers, outside of Southern Ontario, doesn’t have any coverage in rural areas. Rogers, by itself has more spectrum that Verizon does in the US, and Verizon has >100 Million subscribers, while Rogers has 9 Million. And the networks were built on the much hated “system access fees”. Sort of like having a car mechanic who is about to work on your car ask you to pay for the tools he uses to repair your car, and he gets to keep the tools.

      Kostas

    • Josh Brown

      Free market was a great idea when it was a bunch of little stores on the street, have a competitive battle to drive down prices. But as soon as they get enough capital, what happens? They just buy up the little guy instead of competing with him. Then when they are the only company again, they can slowly raise prices again. So in an ideal world free market is great, but when we live in an age of massive corporations, it is flawed.

  • Blocknards

    Yay! I still get a pension!

  • Chrome262

    YOUR title is misleading, they are not planing to scrap the plan, just delay it. Besides which its a bell company so who knows if this is real.

  • wildspin

    This move is purely tactical IMO … not uncommon in many M&A cases.

    Alas, the Robellus trolls on this board can at least breath a sigh of relief now … do you feel Verizon’s love tonight? :-)

  • Conception

    Well I have coverage for at least a few more days on Mobilicity…somebody shoot me.

  • WAKE-UP

    Brilliant strategic move on Verizon part. Don’t celebrate to quickly ROBELUS FAN BOYS. Part 2 of this story is sure to give a much needed enema to ROBELUS in the next 30 days.

  • Thomas C. Riddell

    some one else will come along Like T-Mobile I have Faith

    • Peter

      Ask yourself this, why didn’t they come before? the answer is because a) market is too small b) they cant offer bundling services to compete against the big 3 c) they are afraid that the big 3 would ask for access to the US markets and d) they would need permission for the CRTC if they wanted to sneeze.

    • Shūji Kiritani

      Well…T-mobile uses the same frequency AWS 1700/2100 for most of their network too. Anyways the big 3 is just way too big.

    • Stephen_81

      How are the Big3 “just way too big?” T-Mobile US which is a tiny carrier in the US has more customers than any 2 of the “Big3″ combined.

    • Shūji Kiritani

      our population isn’t as big as the states though.
      so the big 3 is too big.

    • Stephen_81

      Each company still has to pay the same price for hardware and infrastructure bits, make the Big 3 smaller because “they are too big” means greater costs per user.

      IF legislation was tied into breaking up the big 3 and forming a national tower network funded by the government and tower space leaded by all players then maybe the break up would make sense for canada

    • Thr1ve

      T-Mobile has more wireless customers than Canada’s entire population, with roughly 44 million subscribers. They have almost twice as many wireless customers as all 3 of the Big 3 combined (The Big 3 have about 26 Million total combined subscribers).

    • kkritsilas

      Because the opportunity to enter the Canadian wireless market wasn’t there before? Because the cost of entry has gone way down? Because until recently, the foreign ownership rules did not permit ownership of a Canadian telecom company?

      The Big 3 entering the US market and actually “scaring” any of the US carriers (including the “small carriers” T-Mobile and Sprint) is a joke. The Big 3 can’t afford to roll out a network in the US (way too much capital required), and the Big 3 can’t compete on price with carriers like T-Mobile.

      Kostas

    • accord1999

      It’s unlikely, T-Mobile is barely able to compete in the American market as is.

  • Rawrrr

    Rogers gonna swallow us up.. gg unlimited plans..

  • Mike Stirton

    Ads from the big three unions on the radio has me laughing and mocking the crying/whining of the speaker in the ad speaking about the evil outsider coming into Canada to use up the networks they supposedly built in the past 20 years. While that network building argument may well be true, what of all the smaller carriers like Wind and Koodo and so on? I am pretty sure they didn’t contribute to that infrastructure in any meaningful way either. The crying went on to describe the many possible job losses as a result. Purely laughable to me. My heart bleeds for the union shills….WAAAAA WAAAAA….my rectum hurts because Verizon wants to add real competition into the mix here. AWWWW! *snort*

  • Dimitri

    i just sold my telus stock 2 days ago……….. :|

    • Peter

      No way! im so sorry for you. What a mess the government has made of this. Everyday people are now being impacted by this financially, its just wrong

    • skullan

      The Government didn’t make a mess out of this.

      It’s been clear what the Gov wants and they have been to the point with the new entrant spectrum. Not too mention, there was a ban on buying any new entrant until 2014.

      Also, how is the Gov to blame for the stock market? That’s ridiculous. Dimitri sold stock, if he sold it low, that’s part of the Stock Market game.

  • Guest

    It was only a matter of time

  • Peter

    More competition is always better but all this noise was to maybe save us $5-$10 a month on our cell phone bill, if that.Just a joke, the government is playing us for fools, seeking votes. If they really cared about consumers they go after collusion with gas companies and save us money on our $400 monthly gasoline bill. Now that would be helping us out. And besides what company wants to come to Canada where the rules constantly change and there is so much government intervention.

    • Verdic

      What are you talking about. Gasoline is a world commodity with tons of competitors (billions worth of gas is sold every day) – nobody is colluding to screw you out of $400. (btw, if you are spending $400 a month you need to move somewhere closer to where you work/play/whatever).

      Pricing differences between countries is purely due to government taxes (or subsidies). That’s why Europe pays twice what we do, the US pays less than what we do, and some developing countries pay a lot less than what we do.

  • Peter

    On a different note, wind and mobilicity had no plans to establish themselves here, their goal from the beginning was to take the government subsidy, get spectrum, grow their client base with unsustainable price plans and ultimately be bought out. But unfortunately for them the government has reduced their value by blocking any of the big 3 from buying them. This is what happens when government intervenes this much.

    • kkritsilas

      I don’t believe this was the case. I think Wind and Mobilicity were the victims of believing the government was going to enforce the rules regarding tower sharing with the Big 3. This would have allowed both Wind and Mobilicity to have a nation wide presence quickly, which would have, in turn, allowed them to grab a lot more customers. The Big 3 did not abide by the tower sharing agreements, and the gov’t, specifically Industry Canada, DID NOT ENFORCE THEIR OWN RULES. As a consequence, the subscriber base for the new entrants stayed small, which crippled their ability to finance a network of their own.

      The government isn’t blocking anything. All they have said is that the rules for buying out new entrants, as set by the rules at the AWS spectrum auction, will be adhered to. In other words, Telus trying to buy Mobilicity, or Rogers’ back door approach (through Birch Hill) will have to wait until the 5 year “no buyout” provisions have expired. Telus had no right to expect that those rules would be changed to suit their business purposes, and neither does Rogers. And the new entrants also knew that going in. After the 5 year “no buy” provisions expire, any company is free to buy any other company.

    • TB

      The big 3 did abide by the tower sharing agreements and Wind is on many of their towers. What Wind originally wanted was short term leases (easier to sell the company later on) on the towers which is not the industry standard. They realized that it was cheaper to follow the industry standard rather than tie up capital in building towers.

    • kkritsilas

      The Big 3 most definitely DID NOT abide by the tower sharing agreements. If they had, Wind would have had much better coverage, and the Gov’t wouldn’t have had to strengthen the tower sharing provisions in the up coming 700 MHz spectrum auction (publicly revealed by Industry Canada multiple times). if the tower sharing rules/provisions were being abided by, there would not have been any reason to strengthen the tower sharing rules.

      Your point regarding Wind wanting to have short term leases so that the it would be “easier to sell the company later on” is pure speculation. Allow me to specutate in turn: Wind had intentions of rolling out their own towers, so didn’t want ot be tied to long term contracts.

      The Big 3’s insistence on longer term contracts could be seen as “industry standar’ or it could be seen as trying to tie up WInd financially in order to cripple thier ability to compete.

      Kostas

    • TB

      The proof is in the pudding, they are on robellus towers as proven by the IC database and personal witness and they have used a US company to build towers in certain areas which they have short term leases on.

      I’m pretty certain legally the word “Abide” has been satisfied.

      *Unless* you mean free tower access at whatever height they want and robellus provides all facilities then they are definitely not abiding.

    • J-Ro

      Didn’t Wind fall back onto the Rogers network?

      When the phone said “Wind Away” It was using someone else’s network and not Wind’s.

      Isn’t that sharing?

    • kkritsilas

      I have replied above regarding your question. The columns are getting too narrow on my iphone.

      Kostas

    • J-Ro

      Sorry, I’m having a hard time keeping track of who said what to who.

  • rivard35

    Choice is still there for some, not all but some….you want change speak with your wallets.

    to many people think Wind is bad, its ok, but for the price its awesome. 33 dollars for all the 40 dollar plan offers, can’t be beat.

    Still alot of options out there, people can and should talk about how good wind is, the more who join the better Wind will get, also maybe enter new areas for all.

  • YJK

    So… Verizon is not playing into Harper’s election scenario? Too bad.

  • hyperhyper

    Unfortunately, the big 3 don’t care what we think of them. Just look at how they treat their customers to see what they think of us.

    • Stephen_81

      That is where the CRTC failed us. The New Rules did nothing to help Canadians. They made people warm and fuzzy with the loss of 3 year contracts but that was it.
      What the CRTC should have done was require the carriers to offer warranty on the device for the full length of the contract, that would encourage shorter contracts as manufacturers only have 1yr Warranty.

      Canadians are so fast to try and sell ourselves to the lowest bidder in the hopes to save a few dollars. why do we want to be so US American?

    • hyperhyper

      I do not want to be American owned but I do not want to be treated like dirt either. I think people are all on board with Verizon because they are fed up with Robellus and even though the CRTC finally stepped up to the plate, it wasn’t enough. People can only take so much.

    • kkritsilas

      Nobody wants to have a US carrier here, myself included. However, until such time as a viable 4th national carrier presents itself, something has to be done to make the market competitive. The current Big 3 DO NOT COMPETE. Wind and Mobilicity could have changed that, but didn’t. Unless someobody with very deep pockets that can afford to stay in the marketplace and duke it out with the Big 3, Verizon (or another major carrier, and I include the even bigger European carriers) is the only way to shake the Big 3 out of their complacency.

      Kostas

    • Thr1ve

      The loss of 3 year contracts has done more harm than good, because of that, the Big 3 jacked up their phone costs and jacked up the monthly cost of plans, the Big 3 are now making MUCH MORE profit from the 2 year model than they did with the 3 year model… One stipulation that the CRTC should have enforced is that monthly plans and device costs would NOT change going from 3 year contracts to 2 year contracts, but once again, they screwed us, the consumers.

  • Josh Brown

    Come on T-MOBILE now is your chance!

    • J-Ro

      T-Mobile was recently almost bought out by AT&T. T don’t think they are in a position to take such chances.

    • Josh Brown

      That is what everyone says but they have 44 million customers and and a profit of 1.3 billion, just because they are not the big kid on the block in USA does not mean that they are not bigger than any company up here. Also the fact that they bought MetroPCS shows that they are in the expansion game.

      “T-Mobile ended the second quarter of 2013 with approximately 44 million customers, an increase of more than 10 million customers from the end of the first quarter of 2013, of which 1.1 million were net additions and 8.9 million were acquired customers from MetroPCS, which are included in branded prepaid customers. T-Mobile significantly grew its total branded customer base, including branded prepaid, with 678,000 net customer additions during the quarter.”

    • kkritsilas

      The failed buy out by AT&T not only gave T-Mobile cash, but spectrum as well. T-Mobile came out further ahead by the failure than they would have been otherwise, including not been offered the buy out.

      T-Mobile has somewhere over 40 million subscribers, prior to buying out Metro PCS. The entire Canadian wireless subscriber base is in the 24-26 Million subscribers, and that includes ALL of the carrieriers in Canada. T-Mobile has more subscribers than the entire population of Canada, and is only a “small” carrier” in terms of the US market, where the “large carriers” (AT&T and Verizon) are at 100 Million subscribers.

      Kostas

    • J-Ro

      That is good to know. T-mobile would be more ideal, since they offer really great American plans.

      I would personally rather them than Verizon.

    • Patrick Cuyegkeng

      Correct. T-Mobile really came out ahead by the failure of the planned AT&T merger since it had a poison pill in the contract. They’ve since turned that around into a purchase of MetroPCS to shore up coverage in several markets, as well as add more spectrum.

      Between Verizon and T-Mobile, T-Mo would be the better suitor for Wind/Mobilicity since there are so many similarities between their respective positions. T-Mo has LONG been a carrier which only catered to those in major urban centres, and would roam on AT&T in some markets where they didn’t have coverage (or coverage was mandated for safety, such as along highways in states they don’t provide regular service). They understand how to market and service from that position. They are also technically compatible with the existing Wind/Mobi infrastructure; Verizon is completely incompatible being both CDMA and LTE. The “dream” of free roaming down to US Verizon would take some kind of wunderphone that does not exist to roam across from HSPA AWS to CDMA. It would be an even bigger financial commitment to think Verizon would scrap everything Wind/Mobi already put in for infrastructure to retool it all for CDMA, and waiting for 700 MHz LTE deployment would not be fast and would abandon existing subscribers.

      Verizon’s play just didn’t make the most sense to me. T-Mo would be a little more logical, to me at least.

    • kkritsilas

      Verizon is moving to remove all of CDMA from their networks, starting at the end of the year. CDMA compatibility isn’t much of a concern, as Verizon themselves have stopped selling CDMA only phones.

      If Verizon were the buy WInd/Mobiliicity, they would start building out a 700MHz LTE network. When enough of the current WInd/Mobilicty customers have moved to 700MHz, they would start to convert the the current AWS spectrum base stations to LTE.Verizon will be a big bidder on the 700MHz spectrum that is common to their US network, and will most likely win that or those blocks of spectrum. Then, in concert with their US roll out of the AWS LTE roll out in the US (currently in start up phase), they will start converting over the current AWS Wind/Mobilicity towers to LTE. This will ensure that the current customer base still has service, and allow for easy commonality with the US network. The commonality will allow Verizon to use its huge buying power 9in companson to Wind/Mobilicity) to get better handset,and basestation equipment pricing. There is no scanario where Verizon will deploy any new CDMA equipment, either if they decide to go it alone, or to buy Wind/Mobilicity.

      Kostas

  • Samuel Gomez Recuero

    Lets hope this scenario changes by sept 17th.

    The situation will not change if other investors ,that may or may not buy WIND and Mobilicity does not have the financial capacity to go Nationwide. Verizon has this power.

    To me, the failure of both WIND and Mobilicity is tied to their inability to go Nationwide. If they had done so, their situation would have been better.

  • TB

    Please stop making sense and producing facts, its going to ruin a completely biased and circular discussion

  • abc123

    When Target came to Canada, they had similar coverage of products to their competitors.

    When Verizon comes to Canada, they will NOT have similar wireless coverage or penetration or speeds to their competitors. Hence, it would be suicide to charge big 3 prices. You think they could just throw up a cell tower wherever they feel like it? What about the backhaul? The municipal regulations? The NIMBY’s?

    Sure, Verizon is looking out for their shareholders, but it would take years to get to the big 3 level.

  • Cristhian Mejia

    Well get used to $85 being the new norm and $60/month being a joke.

  • MisterChew

    I’ll believe it when I see Verizon’s name is not on the list after Sept. 17th

  • KID ANDROID

    It’s not over yet and trust a big company like Verizon has something up their sleeve in holding off on an acquisition. I still say it will happen but I’m sure there just putting their ducks in a row before pulling the trigger.

  • henndrix1

    Love the scaring tactics on the radio by the big 3! Assholes need to be wiped out the map. We want Verizons!

  • Robert McCall

    Ya right. Wind can’t afford to, or just won’t, pay for Android updates so that users can keep their phones up to date but they are going to purchase Mobilicity. Something just doesn’t sound right there!

  • Kenny G

    Ah well, maybe another time.

  • kkritsilas

    When “Wind Away” is on, you are roaming on Rogers’ tower, and you are paying roaming fees. Tower sharing means that you are directly on Wind’s network, just using Rogers’ towers; no roaming fees.

  • Mr. Everything

    Boooo! Verizon would have been able to compete with the monster monopoly we have here. That’s bad news.

  • Matty Beats

    This is what we in the sales profession call “the take away”. When you take what you’re offering off the table and watch the other party either stay solid under the pressure of potential loss of the opportunity, or squirm and cave in to your demands. Don’t be so quick to throw yourselves at Verizon. They’re not going to save Canadian telecom.

  • vangrl

    Just Wow, I just walked out of wireless wave , the guys there are trying
    to tell me that I’ll save hundreds and hundreds of dollars with the new
    2 year plan. I ask them how cuz my plan right now for my iphone 5 is
    $60 a month and the phone cost $179 with my last lock-in (3 year
    agreement that I got about 6 months ago, this new plan is for my
    brother)

    They proceed to pull out this big chart “2 year VS 3 Year COMPARISON
    CHART”, that shows the supposed savings with these new plans

    – 2 year plan: $85 x 24 months + $250 for iphone = $2280

    -old 3 year plan: $80 x 36 months + $179 for iphone 5 = $ 3060

    = a savings of $771

    Now this is a big chart that shows the savings for all phones, a chart that I imagine they give to all their customers.

    I ask them if they honestly believe what they’re telling me? they get a
    bit pissed. WTF, how can they compare a 3 year plan to a 2 year plan?
    I borrow his calculator and show them that if I were to just continue
    on for another year that it would actually cost me $270 more, that the
    math is off by over $1000. They still insist I’m saving hundreds of
    dollars, and how fantastic that i can upgrade in 2 years rather than 3. I
    said the math would only be right if they actually gave me the 3rd year
    free and that I was able to upgrade at 2.5 years before, to which the
    guys just looked at me like i was insane. I had to leave.

    I understand that the phone should probably cost a bit more, and i
    wasn’t even arguing the new higher package prices, what pissed me off is
    their complete B.S in the savings of $771. Does anyone fall for this
    crap?

  • T1MB0T

    So they figured out what tony jabroni could not.. you can’t beat the big boys.. ha haaa lets be honest here 700 million for a company that is like 2 billion in the hole is a deal.. but the aws is garbage.. come to the gym get pumped like nuke, justin imbecile and the rest of the no reflex club

  • Bryan Grieve

    Sorry to rain on everyone’s parade. Has anyone gone on the Verizon website and looked at what they charge for an unlimited calling plan with 2 gigs of data…..$100. I just got that plan from telus for $85. Not sure how Verizon’s business model would compete with one of the big 3. I still don’t agree with the pricing but Verizon will not be Canada’s wireless saviour. We would need someone like sprint to come in with unlimited everything for $60,but they are the equivalent of wind in the US with their coverage I guess having a network that works most of the time is going to cost you.