Anti-Fair for Canada sites arrive online, urges Canadians to participate against Robellus

Ian Hardy

August 9, 2013 11:32 am

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By now you’ve heard of the Rogers, Bell and TELUSFair 4 Canada” ad campaign that highlights Canadian jobs, price plans and networks. Much of this has to do with New York-based Verizon Wireless potentially buying up WIND Mobile or Mobilicity, then participating and purchasing spectrum in the upcoming auction. Verizon’s entry into Canada is not confirmed, but the Big 3 are ensuring the government understands their opinion of ‘having a level playing field’ are heard.

A couple new websites have popped up that counter Rogers, Bell and TELUS’ viewpoint. One started by grassroots agency Open Media and the other from unknown ‘Canadian Consumers.’ The sites – Four4Canada and RealFairforCanada – both give polar opposite examples of what Robellus is stating, specifically that most Canadians feel ‘ripped off’ when it comes to their high wireless bills and that they own a combined 90% of the wireless spectrum in Canada.

The sites want Canadians to participate by letting others know of their wireless horror stories, plus encourages all to write an email to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

Source: Four4Canada, RealFariforCanada
Via: Twitter

  • hoo dat

    When will Bell openly acknowledge that for the first 90 years of their existence they were an American owned company? Owned, in fact and rather ironically, by the company that became Verizon.

    • hoo dat

      So I shouldn’t hold my breath then? ;)

    • Jason

      Verizon will save us! I wan’t a free S4 on a 2 year and only pay $30 a month for unlimited everything!!! Verizon can’t come soon enough!

    • Olivier Leroux

      I agree with you! Actually, having a fourth strong player will be good for Canadians, and for jobs! It’s not like all of their employees will be American.

    • hyperhyper

      you mean a strong 2nd player. The other 3 might as well be seen as one since they all step in sync when it comes to their ‘awesome’ plans.

    • Stephen_81

      This 2 year contract forcing showed how Rogers/Bell/Telus all initially operate differently then start changing their plans up to match eachother. Look how Bell changed to offer closer to Telus.

      They aren’t operating as one, but they certainly are making sure they compete with eachother.

    • Stephen_81

      The jobs that Verzion would bring would be at best Carrier rep jobs. All phone/tech support would be handled by the current teams, no need to set up a new Canadian division for that.

      Canada would be better services by a UK based company buying in, with the time differences and cultural differences it would benefit them to bring some tech centre and support centre staff into Canada.

      Verizon is far from this low cost saviour, they have an average revenue per account of over $150, Wind Customers should NOT want to see verizon come in, the ARPU of Wind is less than half of that of Verizon so verizon would most certainly jack up prices as they get a foothold to bring them parity with US pricing

    • pjw

      $150 is ARPA, not ARPU. Not comparable.

    • Stephen_81

      @pjw their ARPU would be around $57 if you use the average US family size

    • Josh Brown

      That is the same as rogers ARPU so at least they will be ths same or better.

    • Gregg Lowden

      True Verizon no cost saviour! Regardless of who buys adding French to mix means some Canadian jobs. Best outcome of Verizon would have been roaming with a total “North America” plan (Corporate users to replace low-end consumer accounts) as well as International package – Verizon Wireless is 45% owned by Vodaphone.

      Sure CRTC would intervene to allow Mobicity/Wind customers some type of transition deal. The big three would extend offers as well. Doubtfull the EU Free Trade will be signed before auction to allow a European carrier into fray. Will be interesting to see who bids on the new spectrum.

    • Stephen_81

      What? show me that Plan? on Verizons website?

    • bluecanada

      Oh, neat. Didn’t know that Verizon used to be Bell Atlantic, which came from the 1984 breakup of AT&T…

    • Martini

      Irony sustains me. :D

    • hoo dat

      As it should. I`m sure there`s a whole lot more to follow!

    • ToniCipriani

      And I still vaguely remember Cantel AT&T… which we know today as Rogers Wireless.

    • Paul Smith

      Cantel had the best prices for paging back then.
      $30 bux included a province wide toll free # how sick was that?

  • Igor Magun

    We need another big player in Canada to shake up the Big 3. Wind Mobile was a good attempt, but ultimately their coverage is nowhere near good enough for many people and they don’t even have LTE. With Verizon in the game, we’d have someone with the deep pockets to invest in a network that could finally compete with Telus, Bell, and Rogers.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m among the minority of people that is mostly happy with my carrier (Telus), but I still think that more competition could only make things better – it would drive the Big 3 to keep pricing competitive and invest in improving network quality, customer service, and other factors of the business. As the saying goes, competition breeds innovation.

    • casey

      You know I was beginning to think that a rational argument could be posted on here!

    • Plazmic Flame

      This is exactly what needs to happen. When there is no competition, the prices are high. When you get competition, the prices come down. I find it absolutely nuts that the prices have gone up so high. I’m definitely going to be grandfathering my plan.

    • Igor Magun

      I’ve got a long while left in my contract, but I too am considering going SIM-only with Telus and grandfathering my plan – I’ve got 6GB of data, unlimited SMS/MMS, and 200 minutes (I don’t use much minutes) for just $60/month right now. 6GB of data with a high-end phone would cost me a whopping $130/month with the new rates, and the only perk I’d get is the unlimited nationwide talk – something I’m unlikely to take advantage of.

    • Unorthodox

      I’m in exact same position. So, no more free phones any more.

    • Kyle Arthur

      I have a $55 a month flex plan from Telus. They let me keep the same plan and get a new phone on contract. All I had to say was I really liked my plan. Worth a shot if you want to keep your old plan.

    • Xaxxus

      Verizon is going to have terrible coverage as well when they come here. They are going to have to build up their network as well.

      Im just hoping that they try to compete with rogers and bell rather than just match them like they have all been doing for the longest time.

    • Igor Magun

      Of course they’ll have to build – but they have very deep pockets and can afford to do so.

    • Stephen_81

      Except they also have investors who will require a REAL ROI from building out the network, Why expand into Manitoba? or Northern Ontario, or the Maritimes? the population density wouldn’t satisfy Verizon shareholders unless verizon was jacking up their pricing.

      Compare Verizons NEW plans with Bell, Rogers, Telus plans and the price difference is very little except for international roaming, but the CRTC addressed that.

    • RussianDroid

      I agree with @Stephen_81:disqus. V will likely not build up the infrastructure to what most people hope they will. Also, I do not believe their prices will be much cheaper than big 3.

    • Izzkid

      Here’s my concern, (if) they will come to Canada and only focus on Southern Ontario and Southern Quebec (their words). What about the rest of Canada? Also, they will have the opportunity to purchase two blocks with a market cap of 10%. They don’t need two blocks. I would rather see all 4 Carriers have 1 block each. This will give me more choice. At the current rules, 1 carrier will be out of luck. Instead of providing me with 4 real choices, I have three with better reception, speeds etc… Yes, 700MHZ is that good.

  • Brigitte Laskowski

    Glad I am on +WIND Mobile and not on Rogers (Robbers), Telus (you’ll bankrupt us) or Bell (to auctioning off our lives off). Astronomical over pricing from Rogers, Telus and Bell. I think everyone in Canada should boycott Rogers, Telus and Bell including their sub mobile providers, and switch to Wind or another decently priced mobile company. Then Rogers, Telus and Bell will be making nothing.

    • Karl Dagenais

      I would love to sign up with Wind, or Public Mobile, or anyone else really, but the only companies offering decent coverage where I live (30 mins from Montreal) are Robellus and videotron… And videotron doesn’t have LTE. So yeah, I’m staying with Bell.

      The upside is that the price hike that came in with the 2 years contracts will give a good reason to buy factory unlocked devices, keep Mu current reasonably priced 6gb plan and get quicker updates with no carrier bloatware. Oh, and hoprfully bring-your-own-device rebates too.

    • RussianDroid

      Bring on the LTE and I’ll be there faster than a knife fight in a phone booth. Also improved coverage in Canada would be an asset as i like to travel.

    • Brigitte Laskowski

      I have 4G ony Samsung Galaxy S4 Wind Mobile phone.

    • ABCONMan

      Of course you’re on WIND, you can’t afford anything else.

    • anjew

      14dolla balla

    • WAKE-UP

      Not everyone lives at home and sponges off there parents to pay there bills like yourself.

    • Brigitte Laskowski

      I am not living with my parents. I own a home that had been paid for and have 2 grown adult children in their mid and upper 20s. And yes I am on Wind. Do I travel a lot to where the Wind Network is not? No. I 95% of the time to Wind Unlimited Zones. If I happen to be where there isn’t a Wind Zone, I either use free WIFI or in the case of an emergency, call paying the $0.20 a min. Still cheaper than I payphone which are dwindling. Why through your money away every month to the Big 3 price gougers?

    • WAKE-UP

      If you read it was directed at ABCONMan not you

    • WAKE-UP

      My reply post wasn’t directed at you Brigitte read who I replied to. I agreed with your post.

    • Brigitte Laskowski

      Yes, can afford to be on a more expensive carrier. I choose not to be because I would rather have the cash I save in my pockets.

    • Twonald

      would love to boycott them, i was happy on Wind back in Vancouver. now i live in manitoba where that isn’t an option. and MTS blows. need. more. options.

    • Matt

      I know this might be a surprise to you, but Canada extends past the borders of Onterrible and Quebec. If everyone in Canada boycotted the big three, there would be a lot of people without cell phone coverage.

  • B-rad

    I think prices are pretty reasonable for cell service in Canada today, it has gone down in the last few years, we have unlimited Canada wide plans, we have 2 year contracts – everything people have been asking for the past 5 years. Plus I get LTE pretty much everywhere I go. I think the fact that Wind and Mobilicity are bleeding money, and both up for sale is evidence that their business model isn’t sustainable. I doubt Verizon is going to come to Canada, spend billions launching a network and undercut their US prices. If Verison wants to come to Canada fine, but they defiantly don’t need any special treatment.

    • beyond

      3 digit cell phone bill is reasonable?

    • Chris Johnston

      My bill just got paid for $52/month – 1 GB of data and unlimited Canada Calling and Texting. Just cause you pay 3 digits doesn’t mean you have to.

    • Chris Johnston

      That’s on Bell’s network with an HTC One – new plan in May.

    • Bri

      You’re probably one in 1000s that get that kind of deals

    • Chris Johnston

      Well if people hadn’t shouted for 2 year contracts I am convinced the annual August 6 GB sale would have included unlimited calling for $60 with a $10 nationwide add on. Up from last years Fab 10 200 minute deal. These 2 year contracts are setting everyone back.

    • Bri

      I’m surprised on how you’re satisfied with 3 years contract with $60-70 plans. I guess the Canadian standard prices are just really high and that’s why people shouted for 2 yrs contracts. Obviously, we didn’t expect the rise in prices and we don’t think it’s “fair”

    • Chris Johnston

      I’m surprised at how dumb Canadian’s are. Everything you buy comes with economies of scale. If you buy 1 get 1 free everyone thinks it is great. Companies do this because they don’t have the huge costs associated with new client acquisitions for the second item.

      Its the same in Telecom. You commit longer you can get a better price. Or you shrink how long you get a higher price. Anyone with a brain knew that.

      I plan to have a cell phone for another 60 years. If someone signed me up for the rest of my life I’d do it for a good deal. Why does contract length matter. Could you imagine signing a 15 year term with 5 Free Phones that you can choose to get at any point in the term? I’d sign that deal if the price was right. Maybe $60 with unlimited everything. Contract length doesn’t matter if your getting a good deal because none of us are going without a cell plan.

      As for Canadian Standards? Have you seen the US pricing where more people are located in a smaller geographic service area?

      Unlimited calling/texting and 1 GB is $90/month on Verizon – cheers to begging for that, can’t wait till Verizon comes and people start complaining about that.

    • Bri

      Contract length does matter.
      For many people, a device don’t last 3 years they end up breaking/losing much sooner.
      And yes, US has similar prices as us canadians but in fact, they have much bigger coverage than Rogers/Bell/Telus.
      Considering that our prices are on par with US but having worse coverage/service, I don’t see how canadians are dumb.

    • Chris Johnston

      Math – I know it’s a tough concept for people.

      Verizon has more than 10 times the subscribers as any of the Big 3.

      Rogers coverage is about 520,000 square miles

      Verizon covers roughly 3.5 million square miles. Or 7 times the service area.

      Thus per capita, Verizon actually covers less area.

      I change devices almost yearly maybe closer to bi-annually, I am willing to pay for it because I like tech – so should the people who break their phone. If you crash your car that has another 5 years of payments on it, do you expect a free car too?

    • Josh Brown

      Just did a quick search so i don’t know if these numbers are exact but Verizon has 47564 Towers and rogers has 5364 bell has 4228 and telus has 3350.

      So verizon has close to 9 times the amount of towers as Rogers does. Not quite the 10 times but closer.

    • manitoba6

      Yes, because assuming you are a law abiding person, you will have car insurance.

    • SmartGuy

      Bri,

      Which city do you live int hat your coverage/service is not good? Since you’re so keen on comparing US with Canada, have you considered that the US is much more densely populated than Canada? The state of California alone has a higher population (38M) than the country of Canada (34M). That means that American telcos are making a lot more per network build out than Canada. Canadian telcos cover a much larger geography (Canada is much larger than just California) than their American counterparts and reign in less money (California has a larger population). And you are complaining that Canadian and American cell phone plans are on par?

    • hoo dat

      Why on earth do you think that when Verizon crosses the border they’ll bring their plans with them? That’s like you expecting Ford to sell their cars that were designed in the UK (Focus, Fiesta) for the same price as there, it doesn’t work like that. Verizon aren’t stupid, unlike what you think of some Canadian consumers, if they didn’t think they could make a competitive go of it in Canada then this conversation wouldn’t even be happening. Doing business in Canada is completely different than in the US; legislatively and socially and the markets are driven by many different factors from one another. To assert that Verizon would just jump into the Canadian market and charge markedly more just because that’s what they do in another, completely different market is short sighted and well, stupid.

    • Chris Johnston

      Verizon charges more than any of their competitors in the US. They pride on customer service and network quality. It isn’t the price that will make a competitive advantage and will be 5+ years before they have a network to brag about.

      To be honest, it wouldn’t surprise me if they actually bought Wind/Mobilicity for their towers, win the auction, upgrade the towers, and add more services to their US business customers and don’t look at the Canadian Market as a profit center. See how many of the customers you keep but don’t worry about gaining more consumers. Think about the roaming potential with Towers in Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver. Add some towers in Montreal and you have a great controlled network for your businesses to roam for free on.

    • hoo dat

      The one advantage that Verizon has over their competitors in the US is their network and network quality. Many think this is worth paying the extra for, who am I to argue. But the fact is that in Canada they won’t have anything near the competitive edge that they have at home and it’ll take them years, potentially decades to catch up with the Big3. They can’t just swan in here and demand we pay them more, that’s a HUGE failure waiting to happen, they won’t have the same credentials that they do in the US, the same brand recognition, loyalty, or even network. All of these things take time, especially the intangibles. If Verizon has any designs on being a big shot in the Canadian market then they had better settle in for the long haul and even then there’s no guarantee they’ll get there.

    • Unorthodox

      If you want to sign a deal for the next 60 years in Telecomm/IT industry, then it’s you who’s dumb. What was considered an outstanding demands 3 years ago, is now a norm. In the days when everything turns into data, gets stored in clouds and streamed, the 6Gb deal will be nothing come 2016.

    • anjew

      Dont be so narrow minded. They will have to either keep wind prices or match the big 3. Either way more competition is GOOD as it will force the big 3 to stop colluding with each other and have to compete.

    • Xaxxus

      They should be setting anyone back. All the carriers have to do is bring up device prices like every other 2 year contract in the states. Instead they did both that AND they doubled the monthly costs.

    • Super_Deluxe

      With Rogers $60 Manitoba promo plan:

      Unlimited Canada wide calling
      3GB of Data
      Unlimited texting
      Call Display and VM
      $5 discount

      $62 after taxes. I’m pretty happy with this plan and will probably never change it unless something better comes out which I doubt.

    • trevorz

      My plan is better, I have a Telus plan for $50/month that includes unlimited text and Canada wide calling and 6 gigs of data. I also have a Mobilicity $35 unlimited everything.

    • Borghead

      You must live in Manitoba to get a deal like that. No deals like that for us in Ontario.

    • trevorz

      I’m in Toronto, but basically you have to know someone who works for Telus or any of the big 3 to get that kind of deal. That does irk me as I went back and forth bw Rogers and Telus trying to fight for deals pre-wind/mobilicity days.

    • gommer strike

      What’s the name of the CSR or L&R rep that you bullied to get that deal?

    • trevorz

      my sister, no need to bully.

    • gommer strike

      OK, well, then your situation ain’t exactly one which is available to *anyone*, who calls in, and gets a random CSR. Your sis there greased the wheels and got you that deal.

      It’s like me saying that I pay $15/month for unlimited everything and 2GB of data(the Ambassador plan – only available to employees).

    • trevorz

      It’s a special plan anyone can get. You have to know what the plan is, I will give you the plan name. it’s called Thunder bay 50. Any thunder bay resident is able to get the plan, or have a CSR ring up the plan. Each region/city has a different plan and you have to push for it. SO It can be available to ANYONE.

    • gommer strike

      “Any thunder bay resident”.

      enough said.

    • trevorz

      sigh… I dont create region prices, I dont train CSRs, I don’t create the high prices, I am not trying to hide things, blame it on the telcos,

      Your tears are bitter, enough said.

    • gommer strike

      Not really. I won’t say anymore here :D

    • trevorz

      It’s a region plan that is available to everyone who lives in Thunder bay.

    • Buffy

      why do you have a 3 digit phone bill tho? I use my phone all the time, internet, gps, the works. I pay 67. I get exactly what I pay for. Just curious what people think of us unreasonable.

    • beyond

      I don’t pay that, new customers signing on will.

    • ABCONMan

      If you’re paying a 3 digit bill, you’re a terrible consumer.

    • hyperhyper

      or just someone who does not like to have to call and claim to be irate so you get a deal that really should be available to everyone. Not all people enjoy faking confrontation in order to get the best deal.

    • anjew

      Look at the new rogers share plan offerings… $120 for 6gb of data. not too long ago it was your voiceplan + 6gb/$30. Dont tell me the rest of features in the announced share plan cost 90dollars.

      Is rogers really worth 80dollars more than wind’s unlimited plans?

    • Stephen_81

      Completely reasonable.
      How many hours do you spend on your mobile phone?
      What is your price per minute of Entertainment?

      That said. if you look at all the profitable US carriers they all have Average revenue per accounts over $100 verizon is over $150,

    • Graison Swaan

      we only have 2 year contracts as of just lately, and it wasn’t due to the big 3 (who use it as an excuse to jack their rates) it was due to canadians asking for it.
      I can’t think of another country where a 3 year term was the norm.

    • scaldinglake

      The only “special treatment” they’ll get is the same that’s afforded to any new wireless entrant. Let’s not forget that wind is a huge brand globally and there wasn’t this kind of hoopla from the big three when they started. The big three already have 90% of the spectrum, they don’t need more, and I don’t think they should be allowed to buy up smaller carriers to avoid oligarchy. The rules in question are protecting Canadians against an unfair market.

    • hoo dat

      Lower bills, extended allowances and shorter contract terms have all happened since WIND, Mobilicity, Public Mobile, Videotron and East Link came into being. Although some of the recent benefits are not solely due to their existence, you cannot deny the influence these smaller carriers have had on the market, which goes against your assertion that competition doesn’t work when the proof is right before your eyes. The claim by the incumbents that Verizon is getting special treatment doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, look at their history, especially Bell and Rogers, and tell me why you think Verizon is getting any different treatment that these behemoths have had to themselves for the last 20+ years.

    • hoo dat

      You’re also mistaken in your assertion that WIND is bleeding money, they’re not. In fact, take debt out of the equation and WIND is actually profitable. Their issue is that they took on too much debt too soon in their existence to expand too quickly. If VimpelCom was a tad more patient and stuck with WIND for another couple of years or so there is a very good chance WIND would become a serious national competitor, albeit still small by Big3 standards. Fact is VimpelCom likes to do business their way and adopted WIND by default when they took over Orascom.
      Mobilicity on the other hand is bleeding money. According to their own figures they’re losing $20-30M per month and will not survive for much longer as they stand. It’s not that Mobilicity was a bad idea, but Bitove went in guns blazing, racking up debt left right and centre and can’t pay it back. Now they’re in such a deep hole that they can’t dig their way out and they have nobody to blame but themselves, it’s not that the model is broken.

    • Stephen_81

      Taking out debt isn’t a fair way to assess the company.
      While I agree Wind had a shot, They actually Need to take out MORE debt to continue to expand and retain proftiability. They are not getting the ARPU’s needed to grow their network even if they had no current debt the $27ish ARPU isn’t giving them enough money to expand outside of major urban centres.

      WIND makes Canada an Us vs Them country City vs Rurual. and They just don’t have the size to change that.

      Anyone buying WIND wouldn’t change it either, no one is buying WIND thinking of Canada, Verizon is buying WIND for American Business customers visiting big cities. And to take the easy money of City phones, leave the rest of Canada to the Big 3, Who will lose the easy money access and in turn lose profitability, Canadian retirement portfolio’s will fall all because Canadians are bad at math.

    • hoo dat

      They don’t necessarily need to take on more debt but VimpelCom needs to stand up and be counted as an owner, something that they’re reluctant to do at this juncture for what ever reason. VimpelCom alone could carry WIND and not incur debt, they could pour money into expansion, the same way people pour their hard earned money into home extensions or new driveways, capital expenditure is not debt, it’s asset building. VimpelCom has more than enough money to make this happen but have chosen a different path. They could pay off WIND’s current debt wthout any difficulty at all but have chosen to pull out of the Canadian market due to the unnecessary political interference they’d have to face to stay here. And quite frankly, who can blame them? WIND could quite easily be profitable, so yes, taking debt out of the equation is not only feasible, it’s exactly what Verizon is aiming for.

      As to Verizon buying WIND simply because it opens up a huge roaming zone for American business, I’d have to call that one as BS. This rumour stems from a single article from the US that said what a great idea it would be, which was then picked up by the Globe and then went viral. At no stage has Verizon suggested this was their plan, and at no stage has anyone cited a single source that would confirm it. Not one.

    • ScooterinAB

      I’m with you (and Mr. Johnston) with this one. Studies and price checks show that US prices are actually quite a bit higher than here. The average pricing here is around $70-80, since most people do not need or care for this oft-mentioned 6 GB data plan. In all actuality, I only use about 3-400 MB per month right now. Having a larger amount is nice because I can change my usage habits, but I don’t need much more than 1 GB. That’ll change over time, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there. I believe that most people are also in this situation.

      And I agree with Mr. Johnston’s comments about contract lengths. Ya, long contracts suck. I’m actually a big advocate for 2 year terms. Phones do wear out over time, and life changes can make longer terms a problem. But we as consumers intend on using these devices for the rest of our lives. Whether you’re in contract or not really doesn’t matter, as long as you don’t have changing life circumstances that require moving and service changes. Unfortunately, all that came of 2 year terms is higher prices on phones. It’s still too early in the game to think that this won’t sort itself out, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you break your phone and don’t have insurance, you need to pay for it, just like how you need to pay for your car (and insurance hike) if you crash it. Contract lengths don’t have a great deal to do with that.

      The issue here is about special treatment, unfair practices, and whether or not the PC’s will get re-elected (well, maybe not the last one yet). Verizon should have to enter the market and compete on equal ground, and not get special handouts that the federal government is so blinding trying to force. More competition is better, but only if it’s done properly.

  • dernbiebs

    What ever happened to Shaw building a wireless network???

    • Chris Johnston

      They agreed to sell spectrum to Rogers at the end of the no selling period

    • ObstacleMan

      I really hope this is blocked. That spectrum came with a “use it or lose it” clause. it should be returned at the end of the 5 years because they didn’t use it.

    • Martini

      But what are rules if you have money?

    • ABCONMan

      They waited too long, and blew it.

  • Jonathan G.

    Not that I am against Verizon coming into Canada, but isn’t their a law/rule that the phone company’s owner need to be Canadian?

    • Chris Johnston

      They have been softened – if the market share they buy is under 10% they can come and then there is no law to how big they can grow to.

    • B-rad

      They bent the rule to allow Wind to enter, anyone can own a telco now that has less than 10% market share.

    • hoo dat

      It wasn’t bent to allow WIND into the market at all, WIND had already been operating for over 2 years when that statute was enacted. It wasn’t until much later that VimpelCom initially exercised an option to turn their non voting shares into voting shares and buy Globalive out. They have since ceased that deal due to the negotiations with Verizon.

    • Brigitte Laskowski

      That law has been changed. The Canadian government is intising Verizon to come into Canada. What I would perfer is for Wind to make their coverage greater, charge everyone $10 more and give us REal Canada wide unlimited everything including voicemail and share national coverage with a US provider so that we have complete CanAm coverage..

    • Bri

      I agree!

    • Deciare

      I agree conditionally. Wind is more than welcome to charge some people higher prices for better service as long as I can keep paying a lower price for mediocre service. I don’t need a fast connection with comprehensive coverage, I just need an unlimited connection with coverage where I go.

      This is a very important market segment that keeps getting ignored: for many customers, price trumps quality!

  • Bri

    We need to stop feeding these greedy pigs!

  • dracos

    3 years ago I got a Bell plan and at the time I got 6GB of data for $30 bucks, my monthly plan comes to $63 dollars voice/data, now its $85 for 1 GB of a voice data plan, 6GB no voice is $120 dollars, I hope Verizon comes in and I hope the big 3 Canadian mobile companies get their clock cleaned , instead of getting a head start and change the plans get better plans now get people on their side , they go out and bithc and complain how its not fair what the government is doing ? I hpe they get slap hard. bunch or cronies I think.

  • Chris

    (Removed swearing)

    There are ups and downs either way you go, but in the end, we’ll probably be better off, individually, if we allow competition in. I’m in no position to speculate what would happen in the larger scale of things, but we’ve been overpaying for our services for far too long.

    Yes, infrastructure costs a lot, blah blah. The only way I would stick up for Bell, Rogers or Telus is if they either became completely transparent in where our money was going and theirs, or stopped sucking all the money they can out of us like they have been, without going overboard and having us leaving or making a bigger deal out of it.

    They want our support and sympathy, but have never given it to us. Screw the higher-ups, and their greed. Down with prices, or down with them I say. I’m sick of us getting @#$%#@ by rich people, corporations and greed everywhere we turn. Enough is enough.

    • Judy

      Amen! Although cell rates have gotten more reasonable in recent years, I’m disgusted with the customer service of my provider (Rogers). They clearly have no interest in building customer relations or maintaining their existing customer base. Had a horrible experience being mislead on a promo and ended up getting charged $200. l asked Rogers to reimburse me for $100 of it…not even all of it bc it bc l was willing to just suck up the other charges… AND they couldn’t even do that!!! Whats a $100 to a company like them? Rogers doesn’t look out for your customers (and l have been with them since the beginning). They don’t care about their customerd, so why should we give them our support & loyalty? l say bring on the competition! See if Verizon has something better to offer us and mote importantly, actually tries to build good customer relations.

  • Raphael Fortin

    Thank god someone is doing this.

  • stann

    When I switched from Virgin to Wind I was paying $40 for 100mb data and 150 minutes. Not even callerID. For 1 year things went to 600mb data and 400 or so minutes for a similar price. That’s why we need real competition on the market. There is no competition between Rogers, Bell and Telus.

  • Yeas

    I’m all for someone coming in and shaking things up but are we sure thats going to happen? Wouldn’t Verizon come in and say “Well they’re used to those big 3 ripping them off, so why would we say no to extra money?” and just do the same? Not saying they will, but they could.

    • Chris

      It’s doubtful anyone is going to switch over to Verizon for offering the same plans as they’re already getting.

    • hoo dat

      It may not happen, it’s a possibility but there is also an equal or greater chance of them being competitive and bringing greater pressure into the Canadian market. The trouble is, there are 3 companies that really have no idea how to react to real competition and will do anything to stifle it, look at the lengths particularly Telus and Rogers have taken to squeeze WIND out of the market.
      Will Verizon be competitive? I have no idea, but they stand a much better chance of being so in the market rather than out of it. Just watching the current incumbents panicking like this is worth the price of admission on its own!

      *EDIT* It’s also interesting to note that Rogers will soon offer a shared data plan that looks very similar to one that Verizon has been running for years. Whatever happens to the Canadian market, the incumbents are scared and this can only be good for the Canadian consumer.

    • Sweet

      You’re right. However, in the beginning they’ll have to attract customers, which will be difficult if they charge the same prices as the Big 3. So, they’ll have to offer lower prices and/or increased value.

      Also, there’s no guarantee that Wind or Mobilicity would keep their prices as cheap as they are now, if they were to get big like the Big 3, for the same reason you give.

  • Arm

    You know if you call your loyalty line when your contract is almost up you can get extremely good deals. For 61/month I get 6gigs, 200 anytime, 100 long distance, unlimited evenings/weekends, voicemail and caller id. Literally don’t have to worry about a single thing. Just call your loyalty line if you’re nearing the end of your contract and see what they can do for you.

    • bluecanada

      Right. But that’s precisely the issue — why should people have to figure out how to game the system to get plans like that? Why can’t those be offered up front?

      (For my $61/month, I get 6 GB, 500 daytime minutes, 1000 Canada/US long distance minutes, unlimited evenings/weekends, voice mail, caller id, conference calling, and unlimited texts. But I had to negotiate it.)

      With increased competition, the thinking is that the companies may have to offer those sorts of plans up front. And then if we want subsidized phones, well, have the subsidy very openly applied, like how T-Mobile does it Stateside on a 24-month plan.

    • ando bobando

      I always hated the negotiating I had to do at the end of every contract. And then you meet someone else and find out that they’re getting a better deal than you just because they were pushier to a Rogers service agent over the phone. And once they actually have you locked in again? You better hope you don’t have a single problem for three years, because they will not even give you the time of day until your next negotiating period.

    • Arm

      It’s good for me. When I was dealing with them I communicated that I didn’t need a lot of talking but would want data, as well as a little security for long distance.

      I think my plan is definitely a good deal compared to any other consumer plan on the market, that’s a guarantee (keeping in mind Bell’s great network coverage and infrastructure that say, wind, wouldn’t be able to attest to)

  • Kienerman

    Verizon should come in definitely add some competition. However the complains that the big 3 have is that they don’t want Verizon to use their Towers So I think Verizon should start invest their own towers so the big three don’t cry and complain about it.

    • ABCONMan

      Exactly. Verizon can afford a national network.

  • J-Ro

    Once Verizon get’s here, competition may get a bit better. But those same people that always manage to go over their bill by $100’s of dollars will be singing the same tune.

    No carrier can ever accommodate for user error. For those that can’t EVER stay within the limits of their cell plans, might I suggest Dixie cups and string?

  • Kamil Czerniak

    Robelus is scared, very scared. And they’re right. Why? Let me tell you something that happened in Poland few years ago. Since inception of wireless market in this country we had three carriers: Era (T-Mobile), Idea (Orange) and Plus. Until 2007 they charged about ~1 zł per minute (0,30 $) with minute billing, plans were just bad and no one cared about investing in 3G. In March 2007 new player came – Play. They begun with, considered then, great deals – 3G in biggest cities, 0,49 zł per minute with second billing, modern phones. Right now we have one of most competitive markets in Europe, 0,19 zł per minute is new standard, carriers invest in LTE, even incumbents are in game of lowering prices by bringing no-limit offers for a very reasonable price. We were able to change our market forever. Now it’s your turn.

  • J-Ro

    Wouldn’t it be funny if this was all a huge ad campaign and Verizon comes and matches prices and plans with the big 3? They do have past dealings. This could all be a huge marketing hoax.

    Until we see what Verizon plans to do, no one should expect any better or any worse.

    • Igor Magun

      If their plan is to buy Wind Mobile, which is essentially the only way they could legally enter the market (besides buying Mobilicity, but Wind is much better-off financially), matching Big 3 pricing would be an asinine business decision – Wind Mobile’s value proposition to the customer is the insanely good value for money. Remove that, and all you’re left with is an expensive carrier with relatively poor coverage and no LTE.

    • J-Ro

      That’s true. It might end up being the case. They have to buy Wind out of debt, expand the network, Hire and train and market service.

      I don’t see why anyone would want to do that. It’s a lot of money and if competition gets better between the big 3, they would take years to break even.

      If I were Verizon, I would go for a country with more population

    • hoo dat

      WIND’s debt is VimpelCom’s and Globalive’s problem not the responsibility of the buyer. For VimpelCom to sell WIND with debt is like you selling your house to someone without discharging the mortgage.
      Verizon has already acknowledged that WIND will immediately cost them $1B, this includes the purchase, legislative fees, and some immediate tinkering around with the network, this is acceptable to them so obviously they see the Canadian market as viable. It will be interesting to watch how they progress as a company with a wad of cash that’s obviously interested in spending it.

    • J-Ro

      1B isn’t a bad investment and can easily be made back.

      Now we have heard a lot from customer and the big 3 on how they feel about the potential deal but has anyone heard from Verizon yet?

    • hoo dat

      I doubt very much you’ll hear too much until a (potential) deal is closed. VimpelCom and WIND have also been very quiet about it too but neither party wants to mouth off too soon and have it blow up in their faces, or have a potential back up deal go sideways.

  • Serge-Yvan Gagnon

    Greetings,

    I would like to start by stating that I am a Bell Employee. I am not a high ranking one at that, just a call center level 2 technician.

    I want to share my personal opinion on the matter being discussed here, because I believe that the question of Verizon in Canada will have a great impact for me, as well as for many other Canadians. These are my opinions and not those of my employer.

    I have read through all of your comments with great care, and I can see your concerns in regards to competition. I think that we can all agree that more competition is better. However, what my company (and others) are opposing right now, isn’t the arrival of new competition, but their use of loopholes in legislation that will allow them to come in with a great deal of advantages over existing companies.

    Verizon is a giant, and they have the mean to come to Canada if they want to and they have many advantages to doing it. However, should Verizon be allowed to get this advantage at a discount ? If Bell, Telus or Rogers wanted to expand to the United State today, would they be able to ? Would they benefit from similar advantages ? How will Bell, Telus and Rogers be able to face a new player with such a marginal advantage ? How will this affect their employees and their network ?

    If Verizon crosses over by taking advantage of loopholes in legislation, it will give them an edge that they should not have. It will destroy the market, and there will be consequences. This will not be to the advantage of Canadians.

    If Verizon wants to come over and spend their money in our economy, I’m all find for it, but they should pay the same price and face the same risks that Bell, Telus and Rogers have to face to maintain/develop/operate their network.

    Thank you for your time,

    Serge-Yvan Gagnon

    • Kienerman

      I totally agree with you I also do welcome them providing that they spend money on developing their own network towers it’s not like they don’t have the money to do that.

    • Chris

      I am a “topped out” level 2 Fibre Splicer for Bell. Our positions have nothing to do with this. This competition would be good. People aren’t being forced to switch over to Verizon if they come here. If Bell starts going under and I lose my job because of Bell’s (and the other two) greed, then so be it. As long as us, the consumers, aren’t getting gouged.

    • anjew

      At which point you can apply to be a fiber splicer for Verizon.

      MORE competition is GOOD no matter what anyone says.

    • Stevert

      I would pay more money to not give Telus Bell or Rogers another dime. It’s not just about price, it’s more about principle.

    • FiveOD

      Stevert in 2018:

      I would pay more money to not give Telus Bell Rogers or Verizon another dime. It’s not just about price, it’s more about principle.

    • Stevert

      Everyone deserves an equal chance, I gave all 3 one so far. What’s one more?

    • Chris

      Oh, and it’s not just from without; it’s also from within. The cost of living is going up and not our pay, all the while Bell is making record high profits. Make sense?

    • daftchemist

      Let them have an advantage over existing companies. It’s the only way we can get big change fast!

    • wildspin

      “If Verizon wants to come over and spend their money in our economy, I’m
      all find for it, but they should pay the same price … ”

      Do you mean that the federal government should also give Verizon some spectrum for free like Bell, Rogers have got back when you started? I’m all for that!

    • downhilldude

      Free?! Yeah, all those towers and back bone in the middle of nowhere didn’t cost them anything, did it? Holy mindless ranting…

    • hoo dat

      Verizon will have to spend a minimum of $1B to buy WIND out. Even considering that includes a network, how is this a “discount”? After that they also have to pay their own way in the Canadian market. Again, how is that a “discount”? Has your employer ever discussed with you the multitude of loopholes they’ve taken advantage of in the 133 years of their existence, including the 90 years they operated as an American owned company and as a monopoly? In fact, Bell’s monopoly in home phone lines went well into the early 90’s when legislation forced them to accept competition. In fact, the Canadian government was expressing concerns about Bell’s stranglehold on the Canadian market as early as 1914 when Bell had 237,000 subscribers, 100% of the market at the time. Did you know that Bell also manufactured all the phones for those 237,000 subscribers? You had no choice for equipment, you had to buy from Bell a situation that lasted until the 1980’s. Did they discuss with you all the tax breaks, discounts and free spectrum they have received over the last 20 years in particular? Have they discussed with you how they acquired their spectrum back in the day? Until your employer discusses these issues with you then you really do only understand a very small part of the equation.

    • ToniCipriani

      How much is Bell paying you as part of that “Bullsh*t for Canada” campaign to post these? 5c per post?

    • qwerty_4321

      like the HUGE government subsidization and tax credits (a.k.a. discounts) given for installing the network you run on?

    • ra51dft

      A technician made an effort to depend his employer like a lapdog .Like a paid puppet to me lol.

      Im not a patriot when it comes to spending my hard earned money when there could be choices. Welcome to Canada Verizon.

  • ABCONMan

    I can’t wait for Canadians (WIND/Mobilicity customers) to be treated to those awesome rate plans Verizon’s known for.

    Enjoy!

    • wildspin

      Dude, I don’t really care how much I pay … I’m just disgusted by the big 3. Let Robellus go f*** themselves. ;-)

    • FiveOD

      That’s a really childish attitude. Rogers, Bell and Telus are just corporations. Everything they do is to make money for the shareholders and executives, you shouldn’t take it personally. Verizon is obviously the same, (just look at how they operate in the USA) and even *if* they do lower prices to enter the market it will be temporary at best and within 5 years we’ll all be complaining about the Big Four instead of the Big Three.

      The answer is regulations, that’s how Europe and Asia have better wireless rates than we do. If you think Robellus are throwing a fit over “competition”, wait until you see the fit Verobellus throws over their price gouging being regulated.

    • wildspin

      Thanks for taking your time in response to my childish post.

      Please allow me to make it clear. What disgusts me really is Robellus’ service and attitudes towards customers.

      Once again, I can afford the price, even the top tier price … for that, I wish I could have the option to try Verizon.

      If Robellus is so confident that they could offer value and stand up to competition, why would they be so scared and react in panic?

    • FiveOD

      It’s obvious why the incumbent carriers aren’t happy about Verizon entering the market. Any scenario in which Verizon doesn’t die off and leave Canada results in lower profits for the Big Three. This doesn’t necessarily mean things will get better for the rest of us.

    • qwerty_4321

      like no roaming charges and nationwide long distance? Me too!

  • daftchemist

    Screw the big Three!!

  • Cerberus

    The real problem is that service offerings are NOT standard across the country in provinces where there is competition. As an example, its not unheard of and (correct me if i’m wrong) Sask, Quebec, have a $50-60 plan NON-retentions negotiated with the big 3 that includes 3-6GB of data ult’d local voice and texts – those same plans are $80+ a month in ontario. Why? Well the big 3 have said (when talking about US price points vs Canada) that Canada is a huge landmass and the cost of building out the network is behind the bloated costs…

    But wait, Saskatchewan has around 1 million people, ontario has 13.5m. So the lower price points get offered to the more sparsely populated? No, they are just FORCED to compete.

    Some of my numbers might be off, I admit that but look for yourself. We get ripped and hard and the only way to get a “good” deal is to sign on for a horrible plan from the start and negotiate your way down. I say “we” because be sure that anywhere in Canada, if MTS or Sasktel were to go under and you were left with the big 3; 6 months later you’d be right in line with Ontario pricing.

  • daftchemist

    Can they start a petition? or is there one for the anti-fair for canada campaign?

  • Billy

    I find it strange that the Fair for Canada website doesn’t have a comment section LOL!

  • Matt

    I hear these ads on the radio about the American companies not caring about rural Canada. I live in Maple, Ontario. It is not rural. Bell, nor Rogers offers high speed internet service to my house! If you are familiar to the area I live on Dufferin in a old house away from the new subdivisions. I am forced to pay hundreds of dollars per MONTH for internet using portable LTE internet which charges me 10 cents a meg after I go over the 9 gig limit for the month (which happens in 1 week if I watch any youtube). Rogers and Bell don’t care about having the country connected. They care about PROFIT. Bring on Verizon!!!

    • downhilldude

      Yeah, thank God that Verizon doesn’t give a crap about profit, and is only here to save us from the evil Canadian telcos. Too bad we don’t have loving, caring, philanthropic telecos, like the U.S.

    • Matt

      Obv Verizon is for profit too. But when Rogers, Bell, and Telus play
      those stupid ads like they care about the whole country being connected
      it makes me sick. They will not install a hub which would give me internet because it is not financially viable for them. They are liars. They should tell the truth in the ads – They don’t want to lose market share. Not this BS they are spewing!!

  • downhilldude

    Some people really don’t have a clue about how business works, and how it fits into the bigger picture.

    You want lower rates at any cost? Imagine your cellphone bill goes down 5 or 10 dollars a month, but your taxes go up by a similar amount. Less corporate profit, less business tax. Your Dad’s mutual fund that is invested in Robelus? Not doing so well. Won’t be retiring so early. Your Grandmother’s pension plan that is invested in Robelus? She’s not going to eat so well, nor spend as much for other goods and services. So much for the economy. Again, more taxes for you. Bell, TELUS, Rogers workers on EI? More taxes for you, less being spent to buoy the economy. The web of cause and effect is intricately woven.

    I’m not against Verizon coming up here. I’m not against Verizon buying Wind and/or Mobilicity. I’m not against them doing that and undercutting Robelus by 20%. But I am against the government holding a gun to Robelus’ head and saying “you have to sell Verizon service where Wind and Mobilicity don’t have service, and you have to do it at bulk, wholesale rates. Plus, you can buy the existing spectrum of those carriers, plus we’ll give you half of the spectrum coming up, and leave only half for the 75% of the carriers (Robelus). Verizon should have to build out the network the same as Robelus, and they should not get more subsidy than they deserve.

    From my world travels, I’d say Canada has great cellphone service, and not unreasonable rates. I wouldn’t say “no” to lower rates, but not at any other cost. Before you mindlessly spout off, think about the big picture.

    I’m amazed at how freaked out people are getting on this issue, but not so loud about their banks offering 2% on their savings while their credit card bill is realizing 19% interest, or how oil companies can raise the price at the pumps while the cost of a barrel of crude is dropping. Or, closer to the issue at hand, how they can pay Apple what they ask for one of their products, knowing what the profit margins are (hypocrites!).

    It’s natural to be frustrated by what life throws at you, sometimes, but lets not toss logic out the window when we start to vent about it.

    • hoo dat

      That gun you reckon the government holds against the heads of the Big3, why do you think there’s a need for such a gun? Why do you think Rogers charges WIND 6X the fees to roam in Canada that T-Mobile charges them to roam in the US? Once the Big3 start to play fair I’ll be all for supporting them and will gladly wave their flag. Until they stop with the protectionist BS, I’m sorry but it’s all guns blazing until that point.

    • Peter

      Amazing reply, couldn’t have said it better myself. We are basically hoping for a massive US company to save us. Talk about irony. Since when do American companies do things out of kindness, they don’t, they would come to profit just like the big 3 are. They way wind and mobilicity operate is just to gain subscribers and be bought out. that’s it.

  • ABCONMan

    A grassroots movement (if you wanna call it that) set on destroying an Industry, which is what the CONS are known for doing. Good job!

    I hope Verizon rapes each and every one of you on WIND and Mobilicity when they buy them out. You deserve it.

    • WAKE-UP

      Don’t be a Hater just because your stuck with ROBELUS for 3 years. You talk about being bent over and raped as if you speak from experience from your current provider.

    • qwerty_4321

      typical response from an ignorant liberal. The very concept of free market escapes those of you who thrive on big government and unions. p.s. I especially like the typical lib vitriol you spew forth with your comment “I hope Verizon rapes you”. What a pleasant accepting lot you liberals are.

    • Morgan Freeman

      I’m a liberal… I hope Verizon comes to Canada.

  • Matty Beats

    I think the CRTC rulings toward having fair and equal rules for all Canadian wireless customers should have brought about a better wireless marketplace for Canadian consumers, but instead the big 3 have responded by basically making 2 year plans outlandishly costly (especially for data). So it’s hard to side with them on any “fair market” ideas they put forth. Cost-wise Verizon’s entry into Canada would bring more competitive pricing from all the carriers, but with the NSA’s admission that they store and process all data coming through American servers, I’m not sure I want to allow them access to all my private information. Now their cross-border police from the US not having the same rules as Canadian police, their drone program and persecution of whistle-blowers, I think we benefit more from our autonomy more than we would from a discounted phone bill. IMHO

  • manitoba6

    We have higher telecom prices for 2 reasons. One is that our telecoms have been federally protected from non-Canadian competition for a very long time. The other is that it’s very expensive to provide phone service in a massive, sparsely populated country.

    Ultimately removing the barriers to foreign competition is a good idea, but it will not solve all of our problems. The new price plans will be more expensive because of the new rules. Previously the grand bargain was this – you get a heavily subsidized or free phone with a 3-year contract, and they get to lock you in for 3 years during which time they make a LOT of money off people’s overages and roaming. The phone subsidy never got recovered, it was a free gift which got made up by the fees they could charge you during your contract. That’s why it never mattered whether you brought your own phone or got a subsidy, the monthly price was the same. But now, the rules have limited what they can charge in those extra fees, so they can no longer afford to give away free phones or free subsides. So now, we will pay for those phones either up front, or over time with higher monthly bills.

    When you prevent a company from making money in one way, even in a hated way such as roaming and overages, the company needs to make money in another way. That’s why we have higher prices now, and even higher ones if you don’t bring your own phone.

  • Mr. Everything

    Telus keeps charging me fees they don’t mention anytime I do anything with them.

    • Peter

      Call and ask for clarification, they want you to remain happy as a client.

  • Morgan Freeman

    The sad part about all of this is that while George Cope and Nadir Mohamed are two incredibly dishonest individuals who are the lowest form of scum on the planet… they’re going to get away with every morally corrupt action they’ve executed. There’s no after life with hell for them, life is going to stop for them once they’re dead, and much to their satisfaction, they’re going to live a life of many extreme and undeserved pleasures in life…. at OUR expense.

    I hope the absolute worst for these two soulless bastards and while they’ll be protected from any kind of retribution, I can’t wait to see their Bell’s and Rogers’ stock value dwindle into oblivion and see them withhold their fury against a new competitor from Verizon.

    Please, if there is a god, let these legalized crooks feel what the working class feels.

  • Maximus Decimus Meridius

    Seems that consumers feel that cell phone companies are a charity and are NOT entitled to a profit. You want a cheap phone? Get a pay and talk phone, $10/month. Can you afford that??

    • Peter

      LOL, exactly, and most don’t realize we have one of the fastest networks. Ignorance is everywhere

    • J-Ro

      Common sense is an ironic term, because it is anything but common.

      “for men change their rulers willingly, hoping to better themselves, and this hope induces them to take up arms against him who rules: wherein they are deceived, because they afterwards find by experience they have gone from bad to worse”
      Niccolo Makaveli said it best

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius

      cut and paste says it better. lol

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius

      How long before verizon offered internet and tv services as well?? We wouldn’t be Canada anymore at that point. Might as well fly the red, white and blue in Ottawa. Introducing the 51st state……

  • onearmedlove

    I hear these guys whining all day on the radio about how “unfair” everything is to be a billion dollar corporate giant who has enjoyed a blood letting monopoly for decades. “We need to make sure we drive out the new competition and have things return to the three king oligarchy we enjoyed before Wind and Mobilicity”. PS: “America is MEAN!!!”

  • shadow tech

    Verizon should come to Canada let there 4th in the Canadian. Give the big 3 run !!

  • Fair For Canada

    Now there is the FaceBook page “Fair For Canada” which exposes the Telcom bully’s for who they really are!

  • Michael Bian

    Thank you for this info..