Rogers stands up for net neutrality, complains Videotron’s Unlimited Music service violates Telecommunications Act


  • alexb88

    I’m surprised Telus is supporting Videotron.

    • Deathdearth

      Telus is probably preparing a similar offer to their subscribers …..

    • alexb88

      That would be nice

    • cartfan88

      Perhaps due to both Bell and Rogers being media giants also whereas Telus is more of a pure pipe. Maybe they see Videotron as slightly closer to them?

  • It’s Me

    It’s not surprising that Rogers is complaining since they got busted for doing the same and more. But their holier than thou attitude is funny, since they and Bell pioneered this type of behavior here.

    • BaruchTO

      So true.

    • JTon

      Please elaborate on when and how Rogers “got busted for doing the same and more”. I’m no fan of the high prices, but I don’t ever recall unmetered over the top services

    • Jean B.

      Throttling P2P, Mobile TV, etc.
      I don’t call that very neutral either.

    • It’s Me

      Their mobileTV app provided 10 hours of video content that would not count towards your data cap, but only for Rogers provided content. In Aug 2014, after being investigated by CRTC for violating net neutrality in exactly the same way they are complaining about now, they ceased the practice. But for that complaint, they were going to treat their hockey monopoly the same but no longer could. And then there was their throttling of certain data on their landline internet service meant to harm competitors.

      This is not a case of Rogers standing up for net neutrality at all. This is a case of sour grapes, where Rogers is complaining because they see someone else doing something they already got caught doing.

    • mastjaso

      You’re last point is somewhat incorrect. This is Rogers standing up for net neutrality. Just not for altruistic reasons.

    • It’s Me

      Not really. They’ve shown a desire to do the same. Instead of this being a case of standing up for net neutrality, it’s just as likely they are trying to push the point so that if Videotron is allowed, they will too.

      At best, it’s a case of them standing up for the principle of “it’s not fair, me too, me too”.

    • Me Ted

      Regardless of Rogers’ record on this matter, they’re right.

    • SycloneRob

      And since they got nabbed. They will make sure others dont get it either. If i was told i couldnt do something i will make sure no one else gets a free ride. This is what happens when 1 gets the ball rolling, now its the snowball effect.

    • It’s Me

      Sure, obviously they would whine about it. It’s throwing a tantrum foot stomping and screaming “it’s not fair, it’s not fair! You didn’t let me me have any!” No one would have expected any different.

      But let’s not pretend to buy their holier than thou, self righteous act of piety in defending net neutrality. They’re upset they got caught and want to tattle on the rest of the class. They are behaving no differently than the child in the checkout line throwing a fit because his sister got more ice cream.

    • SycloneRob

      So you think they shouldn’t have said anything? This is business after all. I agree that they will say what ever to make their point but dont tell me that if you were rogers you wouldn’t say anything.

    • It’s Me

      “With respect to cry baby [Rogers], what can I say?”

      Remember who said that?

    • SycloneRob

      I agree that he shouldn’t say those things as it will come back to bite him, but you never answered my question. If you were rogers you wouldn’t say anything?

    • It’s Me

      It depends. It would depend on my own past behaviour. It would depend on how confident I am in my own strategies or whether I’m so insecure I need to snitch on others. And it would depend, in this case, whether the others are actually in violation. When Rogers was being investigated, it was for prioritizing their own content or that of their exclusive partners, neither of which is the case here. Videotron is certainly prioritizing certain content but it’s not theirs and it’s not exclusive.

      Rogers could have sought clarification from regulators on what is allowed instead. They could have tried to develop a superior offering. They don’t have to act like a tantrum throwing child.

      If someone gets busted for being a w***e, they don’t have to run around calling everyone else a w***e and they certainly shouldn’t try to pass themselves off as a virgin.

  • Shoey5

    Rogers isn’t supporting Net Neutrality, they just want to make sure they can squeeze money off you for every last bit without worrying about competition. Rogers and (to be fair) pretty much all companies only do things when it’s in their best interest not the customers. Yes they have a valid point but this is only an issue if Videotron stands to gain by receiving money from exclusive content. I could be wrong but given the number of music services they support, it sounds more like they are trying to differentiate themselves to get more customers by allowing their customers to be able to stream music without eating through their data.

    • Rio

      It doesnt matter if money exchanges hands or not, or if they support all music services known to man and lost money on it. It is still a net neutrality issue.

      They are giving preference to certain type of data. It is almost like charging a premium if you want to watch videos.

    • Shoey5

      That’s more the case if they were affecting other kinds of data or forcing certain type of data for profit. From your argument phones calls and their plans are a huge violation of net neutrality laws and shouldn’t be allowed on a phone.

    • mastjaso

      That’s baloney. Extremely few phones and carriers use telephony over IP. Telephone calls are still routed through separate networking, they are a different network that is not a part of the internet (they don’t use the same TCP/IP packet routing). Same with sms messaging.

      But in 5-10 years when all calls are over IP? Yes. You’re absolutely right that it probably will come up as a net neutrality issue.

      But even if they exempted telephone calls from their data rates at that point they could still avoid net neutrality issues very easily. Internet routing already supports Quality of Service protocols which allow you to tag data as a telephony to indicate that it’s time sensitive and needs priority. You could exempt data sent with telephony tags from data caps and thereby exempt all VoiP calls. It’s not a net neutrality issue since any web designer or app developer can hook into QoS protocols since those are open standards.

      That is not what’s happening with Videotron’s music service or T-mobile’s in the states. They are arbitrarily choosing big names in the audio streaming space to exempt their data. That’s a huge and blatant net neutrality violation.

    • Shoey5

      Separate networks yes but depends on where you’re calling or texting. Eventually gets there

    • mastjaso

      Yes, but again, once the legacy networks are retired I guarantee that telephony will become a net neutrality issue.

    • SycloneRob

      Even in 5-10 years. They can even if its voip it can still be on a dedicated space on the wireless network to maintain quality of service, just like how their landlind voip service is run. So net neutrality wouldnt apply since that section of the network would only have voip even if it uses LTE technology.

    • mastjaso

      Rogers is absolutely supporting Net Neutrality. They may not be doing it for altruistic reasons but what Videotron is doing is absolutely a violation of net neutrality.

      Unless Videotron has proposed and implemented a new open standard for marking and identifying any audio content, that can then be implemented by any app maker or web site to bypass data restrictions, it’s choosing and biasing certain services over others.

      The whole point of net neutrality is that if I decide to launch my own web music service i should suffer no disadvantage just because I’m small.

    • Shoey5

      As I said, based on the number of services they are supporting, doesn’t look like they worked out any deals. Yes of course your right, but doesn’t look like they restricted anyone. So long as someone can go and say he you forgot about me and get on, it’s all good.

      Of course, what I was saying was Rogers doesn’t give a Rats (You know the word) about net neutrality. My original comment was based on the title of the article.

    • mastjaso

      >”So long as someone can go and say he you forgot about me and get on, it’s all good.”

      No, it’s not. That’s why net neutrality rules exist.

      It should not be up to every startup/service creator to have to research and jump through arbitrary hoops with every one of the millions of ISPs in the world just to be treated the same as an established player.

    • Shoey5

      They are offering unlimited data to allow users to stream music from a bunch of services. It doesn’t even sound like they approached these companies. So if they missed some startup, why should that startup be treated any different from the established players, they all had to go through “arbitrary hoops” when they started out. That wouldn’t be very net neutrality.

  • beyond

    “…noting that Videotron’s practices will make it harder for companies like Rogers to compete…”

    Sure but it’s OK for Rogers to stifle competition. Such hypocrites.

  • Josh Adams

    If a provider were to offer this but it covered 100% of all the streaming music services, would that violate net neutrality since they would be treating all information of the same type equally?

    • Probably would not violate net neutrality, but how do you easily cover 100% of all the streaming music services?

      If you base it on source then you need to be continuously adding sources (today they have a limited set of sources) and at some point there will be disagreement about what is a streaming music service.

      If you base it on protocol then how do you filter out sources that are piggy-backing on the music streaming protocol to do other things? At first this may not be an issue; and if only Videotron offers this it may never become an issue. But if the other wireless providers offer this service then suddenly every Canadian has unlimited data if only they use a streaming protocol.

    • Kyolux

      That would still go against ‘“undue discrimination” towards certain types of content,’ since streaming music is only one type of content. It should be unlimited for everything or not at all to respect the Telecommunication Act.

    • Raion

      I’m all for net neutrality and I’d certainly like to have unlimited data.
      Are we assuming that there is enough bandwidth to offer unlimited unthrottled data?
      If there is, fine. But if not, I’d frankly rather have unlimited anything that isn’t above a certain bitrate than unlimited data up to 5 Gb and throttling after. It’s pretty easy to get to 5 Gb just by streaming music.

    • Kyolux

      I was just giving my interpretation of what the telecom act says.

      Your suggestion sounds like a good compromise. Personally I’m fine with Wind’s 5 gigs and then trottle if there’s congestion. But I don’t stream much music. So that may not fit everyone’s ideal.

    • Raion

      Depends on what throttling prevents from doing I guess. I wouldn’t want to use up my 5 Gb in the first week with music streaming then be throttled for the rest of the month and not be able to watch a youtube video.
      For me, unlimited music basically amounts to unlimited data.

    • Kyolux

      It’s been a while since I’ve reached 5 gigs.. But it was very rare I was being throttled. I don’t really remember a particular occurence.

      Although Wind is sometimes just plain and simply slow. And still has a lot of trouble if there’s more than a wall or two between you and outside.

    • Raion

      So you don’t get throttled if the network isn’t congested? I hadn’t realized that.
      What I’m really wondering is what’ll happen to the people on Vidéotron’s unlimited music if the CRTC shuts it down. Will the company offer something to compensate? That’s the only thing keeping me from switching right away.

    • Karl Dagenais

      Yes it would go against net neutrality. Why be able to stream unlimited music, but someone can’t stream unlimited YouTube? Or unlimited plex, which by the way also streams your music?

      Not neutrality means a bit of data counts for a bit, no matter what it contains.

      That said, I love with is type of deal, and will switch to Vidéotron if the CRTC says they can go on.

    • Raion

      Bandwidth? Youtube sends more bits at a time than music streaming services after all. But that only matters if capacity’s an issue.
      If the CRTC okays the practice, I’m switching too, unless some miracle happens and Bell gets me to stay.

    • xeronine992

      I see where you’re coming from, but that’s such a negative way to look at something positive.

      Now if the carrier were to charge you extra for YouTube or were to cripple your YouTube watching experience that would be bad.

      I don’t see how not counting a particular service(s) towards your bucket of data as being bad so long as it doesn’t pave the way for a negative impact at a later time.

      It’s a bit like arguing that toll free numbers shouldn’t be free and should be billed as regular calls. Or calling 611 ties up a channel on the network so why is that call counted as free (lets assume the user doesn’t have an unlimited calling plan already).

    • Karl Dagenais

      Definitely agree, but net neutrality is net neutrality, it’s not about benefitting customers… That’s the discussion here. I’m playing Devils advocate.

      My wife has this unlimited music, and I’m SERIOUSLY switching for it… Now I’ll just wait for the CRTCs decision 🙂

    • danbob333

      Yes it would.

  • Kevin Owens

    Hahaha. You know what? I’m currently in the Philippines for a vacation and I can tell you, the net neutrality fight is already lost. Here, you can subscribe to a data plan and choose one app that won’t count on your data. Either that or they’ll tell you Facebook is free or Spotify. They don’t care at all. I have a very strong feeling there’s way more countries like Philippines who don’t care and so whatever they want than countries like Canada who fight for net neutrality

    Also, Rogers isn’t standing up for net neutrality. They don’t give a sh!t. They are standing up cause they didn’t release that promo first and it’s an easy way to attack a competitor without spending too much money.

  • danbob333

    Good job Rogers.

  • fruvous

    Why is Rogers engaged in behaviour that their CEO has characterized as being a cry baby?

  • Harold Mitchell

    Pot…….meet kettle.

  • Andrew English

    WIND should do the same thing offering a similar service.

  • Elton Bello

    Ohhh, rogers crying like a baby

  • Leif Shantz

    Greedy bastard robbers i hope the CRTC hearing about wholesale data will shut Guy’s yap up as more customers will leave the Big 3!

  • AllanC-B

    No … Rogers is whining because they don’t want to compete with Videotron! Whiney little bastards.

  • Darren Parberry

    Why do you have to subscribe to Bell to watch CTV programming on-line? Does this not mute Roges argument?

    • Hugh Jorgen

      Who watches CTV? Oc CBC for that matter!

  • jordan___d

    Hasn’t this kind of thing been happening since years ago?? I remember about 2 or 2.5 years ago when you could get unlimited access to Facebook or Twitter or bbm. Those were data types offered exclusion, nobody had an issue with them. That was before but this really isn’t that different.

  • abc123

    “noting that Videotron’s practices will make it harder for companies like Rogers to compete.”

    Oh, the irony..

  • HelloCDN

    Hey, Rogers? Ahahahaha….
    All of Canada

  • David

    Here’s the main distinction between this and what Rogers was doing by throttling. Videotron is offering MORE for premium through services they don’t own while Rogers was LIMITING services that aren’t their own. I don’t know if I can really complain about what Videotron is doing. Is it fair to other streaming services like Apple Music? No it isn’t. But is it offering improved service to customers by making it easier to use other services they are already subscribed to? Yes it is.

  • Hugh Jorgen

    What’s with all this streaming bs? Load your phone with music you’re done unless of course you own one of those state of the art 50 cent iphonys.