When I get ready to interview someone, it’s often pretty easy to figure out what I’m going to ask them. Generally, we’ll mainly chat about their big upcoming project or something they’ve recently done. Pretty straightforward. But it’s not every day you talk to someone who holds a literal Guinness World Record for “most prolific female video game voice actor,” on top of the numerous
Hale. (Image credit: Scott Garfitt)
other roles she’s done in film and television.
And yet, that’s the unique “problem” I found myself having with Jennifer Hale last week. When I spoke with the beloved Canadian-American actress in 2023, it was in celebration of 20 years of BioWare Edmonton’s RPG masterpiece, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, in which she played the Jedi Bastila, which naturally focused the conversation. This time, though, the playing field was much more open. Where do we even start? There was so much I wanted to ask her, especially given how delightful our Star Wars-focused chat was last year.
Thankfully, there was this little show called X-Men ’97 that recently came out in which the Labrador-born Hale plays Jean Grey. As Marvel’s highest-rated project ever, that certainly seemed like a good place to start. Notably, though, X-Men ’97 was far from Hale’s first time as the powerful mutant telepath, having previously portrayed her in such projects as the animated series Wolverine and the X-Men and video game Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
So, what made this Jean different?
“Number one, it’s Jean Grey. I would be there with bells on anytime, anywhere!” she says, laughing. But she notes that she feels “incredibly lucky” to get the chance out of all the other “brilliant” women who have played Jean. What particularly drew her to X-Men ’97, she says, was “the level of knowledge and understanding and connection to the material and the homage” to the original X-Men: The Animated Series, to which ’97 is a sequel, that the writers brought to the table.
As an example, she cites how British-born Canadian Catherine Disher, who voiced Jean in the original ’90s series, was still given a key role in ’97 as Dr. Valerie Cooper. “I’m so excited about that. I’m so appreciative that this team is honouring the original in so many wonderful ways.” She adds that she was excited to get to play a villainous role as Jean Grey’s clone, Madelyne Pryor/The Goblin Queen.
Jean Grey and Scott Summers in X-Men ’97. (Image credit: Disney)
At the same time, X-Men ’97 also honoured other Marvel properties, particularly through two cameos from the Peter Parker/Spider-Man from Spider-Man: The Animated Series. I tell Hale that the ’90s Spidey show — in which she memorably voiced Felicia Hardy/The Black Cat — was my introduction to Marvel, and the crossover with X-Men: The Animated Series blew my mind as a kid. With that in mind, I ask her who in the Marvel universe she’d like her X-Men ’97 version of Jean to meet.
“If I’m being completely self-indulgent, Black Cat, because I’m both of them!” she admits with a laugh. But then, to my surprise, she flips that same question back to me. I admit that I’d also love to see some sort of ’90s Spider-Man resurgence, especially since that series ended on a cliffhanger that has only finally been addressed, however indirectly, with the wall-crawler’s pair of brief X-Men ’97 appearances. I also note how much I’d love something like Spider-Man: The Animated Series‘ big “Secret Wars” crossover, which featured Hale’s Black Cat meeting Captain America (voiced by fellow Canadian, Metal Gear co-star and good friend David Hayter).
Upon mentioning that, Hale starts sharing some of her fondest memories working on Spider-Man, especially since it allowed her to meet none other than the character’s co-creator, Stan Lee.
“One of the things that was so great about doing it back then, it was one of my very first shows when I hit LA. And back then, Stan would come to our sessions all the time. He had us over to his house for the first episode of Spider-Man. And I didn’t realize at the time what a huge deal that was. Now, I’m like, ‘Oh, my God, are you kidding?’ This actually happened! That’s crazy,” she says.
“He just loved the show. He was just always there. I think he loved the cast. He loved being part of it. He loved these characters. Stan was one of the most open-hearted, genuine and brilliant people.”
That reflection continues with X-Men ’97. While she can’t say anything about the second season, which is currently in production, but for now, she’s celebrating the massive impact of the acclaimed series.
“I’m sitting there at the premiere of X-Men ’97 six months ago, watching those first three episodes back, I was blown away by what an incredibly brilliant mirror of our time it is. Some of the most pressing and difficult issues of our time are woven through this in a really artful way. They don’t hit you over the head with it, but it’s absolutely there and that, of course, is the genius of this team. I would stand on a rooftop and shout their praises all day, every day, because they deserve it,” she says.
Reconnecting with her Canadian roots
X-Men ’97 was also an appropriate starting point for our conversation since it touches on something else I wanted to dig into: Hale’s Canadian lineage. After all, X-Men ’97 features many of the Canadians who voiced the mutant heroes in the original ’90s series, which made it rather fitting that Hale ended up joining those ranks. In a sense, that mirrors her personal life, which saw her relocating to Vancouver from LA during the start of the pandemic. She’s since been able to record voiceover remotely from her home studio there. Looking back on the past four-and-a-half years, she says it’s been a “really fascinating experience” to return to Canada after moving to the U.S. with her mother when she was young.
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“Being here, there are a lot of things about U.S. culture that I can see now, at a distance, and one of those things is that the U.S., certainly with merit, celebrates the U.S., but often overlooks so many other people’s contributions and brilliance, or dismisses it, or just doesn’t see it. I don’t know — I can’t attribute motive to anybody,” she says. “But man, I love this place up here [in Vancouver]. It’s wonderful in some really special ways. I’ve always had the experience when I crossed the border to come up here to visit of feeling this enormous sense of relief. I would often come up with my young son and as a parent, as a family, we would be looked out for, culturally, and protected. And that’s an extraordinary experience. And the experience of being seen — of seeing people who aren’t usually seen. That is something I’m coming to learn is very Canadian.”
And even though most of Hale’s career has been based out of the U.S., perhaps her most beloved video game role, the female Commander Shepard (affectionally called “FemShep” by fans) in the Mass Effect trilogy, comes from Canada’s own BioWare Edmonton. She credits that feeling of “being seen” to something that the Canadians at BioWare consciously injected into their work, particularly with Mass Effect.
FemShep in Mass Effect: Legendary Edition. (Image credit: EA)
“That game took risks. It took risks to represent all kinds of beings. Orientations, different kinds of love, different kinds of experiences — it was an extraordinarily inclusive game, which nowadays doesn’t seem remarkable, but when you go back to 2007, it was fairly unprecedented. And I find that deeply Canadian,” she says.
She says having a “FemShep” option to begin with was ahead of its time in the gaming space. Even in the years since, we’ve heard about how executives have regularly pushed back against more prominent roles for female characters, like Ubisoft reportedly did with multiple Assassin’s Creed titles. So when BioWare announced the Legendary Edition remaster of the Mass Effect trilogy and prominently featured FemShep in the reveal trailer, Hale was moved to tears, as seen in a reaction video she posted to social media.
“I just lost it, because FemShep was all over the trailer, and to be part of that was such an unbelievable privilege. [Mass Effect was] one of the first games where you could play as a male or a female, and by the third installment of the trilogy, they put a switchable cover in. You could put FemShep on the box!” she says, commending BioWare for their push for that representation. (When asked about the untitled next Mass Effect, she insists she hasn’t heard anything but is eager to return. “There’s an enormous amount of energy out there begging for Shepard to come back!”)
not gonna hide it, this is pretty damn cool@masseffect @bioware #N7
❤️💪🏼🙏🏼 https://t.co/5Ar4shnkxN pic.twitter.com/9qH6IvEHpn— Jennifer Hale (@jhaletweets) February 3, 2021
But her praise doesn’t end with BioWare — far from it. As I read through her staggeringly long list of acting roles in preparation for the interview, I realized that so many of them have significant ties to Canada. First, there was Spider-Man and Metal Gear Solid with David Hayter in the ’90s. Later, after the BioWare games, she had a major role in the hit Canadian wilderness-set survival indie game The Long Dark from Vancouver’s Hinterland. Elsewhere, one of the original — yet frequently uncredited — writers on the Hale-voiced female Lombax Rivet, the co-lead of Insomniac’s acclaimed PS5 game Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, was London, Ontario-raised Sam Maggs.
After bringing up all of these talented Canadians who have contributed to her incredible career, I ask Hale what she thinks it is that lets us continue to punch above our weight and create all of this art that’s loved around the world.
“You’re extraordinary. Honestly, you see people — there’s a level of caring. Caring is cool in Canada, and I think it should be cool everywhere. It’s starting to be, and I’m glad to see it. Also, shout out to every single one of those people you named; every time you named one of them, it put a smile on my face,” she says before beginning to rave excitedly about them all.
“I remember, Dave and I met back in 1995 — he was Captain America, speaking of Spider-Man, and I was the Black Cat, and we met, and he, to this day, is one of my closest, dearest, most trusted friends. He and his wife are like my extended family, practically. And then, God, I adore Sam Maggs. I just adore her,” she says.
The Long Dark. (Image credit: Hinterland)
“And when I think of The Long Dark — that was actually Mark Meer [male Commander Shepard] who posted about that ages ago, when he was in the Kickstarter. And me, my dorky self — see, this is where the American side comes in handy, because I was like, “I want to do that. Can I play? Can I play? I want to do it. I’m Canadian!” [Meer] was like, “Yeah, okay, I’ll connect you with them!” And [director] Raphael van Lierop was great and gracious enough RAF to include me. And it’s an absolutely exquisite project. People out there, if you haven’t played The Long Dark, please do. Yeah, so many wonderful, wonderful bits of Canada!”
And yet, despite all of that, there’s a general lack of awareness surrounding Canadian-made art, especially in the field of video games. I mention how I wrote an op-ed in January about Canadian developers needing more recognition, to which I received dozens upon dozens of responses from developers with whom it clearly struck a chord.
“That’s another part of the Canadian culture — you don’t brag on yourself!” she says, noting that this sort of discussion for a greater celebration of developers is the kind of “happy place” she wants to be in.
“One of the things I want to do is reach out to especially indie devs in Canada. I want to work with Canadian indie devs. I want to support them. It’s not even about me having a role in the game. What I want to focus on is, ‘How can I support you? How can we all connect?’ I have witnessed — quite directly, unfortunately — a disconnect between the Canadian actors union in B.C. and indie developers. I experienced some quite antagonistic stuff that shocked me, honestly, and made me want to reach very directly out to devs to see what I can do to support them. Because that will not stand,” she says.
“But that is something that is very important to me — to connect with Canadian devs and uplift the industry up here as much as I can. Because the creativity is phenomenal. And there’s even governmental support for some of this stuff, it’s crazy. My sister and I a couple years ago started a business here for people of Indigenous descent. We have a lot of support out there for businesses like ours, and that carries over into games as well. It’s pretty cool.”
AI and the future
I’m doing NO STRUCK WORK
I would not do that to ANY of my fellow #voiceactors and
I ask that you don’t eitherthis is a 911
AI is coming for many many professions and
is being used to feed
CORPORATE GREEDwe voice actors and #mocap actors are just the Canary in the coal mine pic.twitter.com/JJWJ4SUhpa
— Jennifer Hale (@jhaletweets) July 29, 2024
When I spoke with Hale last year, we were in the midst of the writers strike and mere weeks before the SAG-AFTRA strike, which both affected Hollywood. As we talk now, the actor’s union launched a similar strike in July against video game companies including Epic Games (Fortnite), Warner Bros. (Batman: Arkham) and BioWare parent company Electronic Arts.
“Although agreements have been reached on many issues important to SAG-AFTRA members, the employers refuse to plainly affirm, in clear and enforceable language, that they will protect all performers covered by this contract in their AI language,” SAG-AFTRA said in a statement in July.
While labour movements have been happening since the 18th century, concerns surrounding AI are, naturally, a far more recent matter. Therefore, there are likely many people who don’t understand exactly what SAG is even protesting now. With their company SkillsHub, Hale, her sister Carren and their friend Bill Reid try to support actors in areas such as this. But for those outside of the industry who are likely ignorant on the issue, what is really at stake here?
“The issue that is the main sticking point in this contract is establishing rules and boundaries around the use of AI. AI is here, [and] the acting community is not at all anti-technology. Myself and several other people I know are in the process of recording a bunch of lines to be fed into an AI company, to have our voices generated by AI,” she says. “We can do that only because this company is guaranteeing us — let’s call it the three C’s, control, consent and compensation. Control over where our voices are used; they will not be using my voice on projects that I don’t ethically — or for whatever other reasons — agree with. Consent: you can use it because I said so. You don’t get to steal my voice, no, thank you. And compensation: I get paid for it each time it’s used.”
A SAG-AFTRA protest is taking place outside the Warner Bros. lot.
Read more about SAG-AFTRA’s strike against major video game publishers here: https://t.co/EEEaQlqxJe pic.twitter.com/9wzGcXaENl
— Variety (@Variety) August 1, 2024
In the past few months alone, we’ve seen Hollywood use AI in particularly controversial ways, including through deceased actors being digitally resurrected for cameos in the likes of The Flash and Alien: Romulus. That’s to say nothing of how “deepfake” videos featuring famous people like Tesla CEO Elon Musk and U.S. President Joe Biden have been at the centre of massive scams and dangerous political propaganda.
Of course, those are some high-profile examples. Hale notes that the danger of replacing even a few video game jobs with AI is that it can greatly affect the average worker who isn’t a celebrity and instead goes from paycheque to paycheque. She say this extends to both union and non-union actors (who in her words have unjustly faced a lot of “mudslinging” lately) across the board.
“In this strike, we’re looking at voice actors, performance-capture actors and motion-capture actors. And we are the work-a-day actors, myself included. We get paid SAG minimum scale. Now, that sounds super fancy. If you get paid $1,000 to go work for a day, that sounds insane, absolutely,” Hale says. “Except that’s not all we’re getting paid for. We would audition 20, 30, times to get that one job, so that job has to be spread out over the month. And if you work three or four times in a month, you might be great that month, and then you might not the next month, or you might work six times and not again for two months. That is the nature of the job. We accept that. We are the work-a-day actors, though. We don’t get paid the fancy money. We have to keep our volume going so we can pay our bills.”
She says that’s especially true for other actors who have children and, in some cases, might even be single parents like her. “How do you provide stability for yourself and your kids when that’s going on?”
All of this is happening, she says, while there is still “plenty” of money to go around, AI or not. “This is the question I wish everyone would pause and ask themselves. Ask anybody who will listen, ‘Where’s the money going?'”
SAG-AFTRA video game strike. (Image credit: SAG-AFTRA)
To put this all into perspective, she warns that AI can affect everyone, not just actors.
“AI is coming for all of us. I have spoken with experts in the tech field who predict 30 to 40 percent unemployment in the general population in the next two decades. Actually, one of them said in the next five to 10 years, but he said his timelines are often quite aggressive. We’ve got to pay attention to that,” she says.
But despite all of that, she wants to stress that “there’s no villain on any side” of the issue.
“There’s some unconsciousness on the part of corporations and lawyers who are skipping the step of seeing people as human beings who need to survive, but everybody in those rooms, the devs and the actors, we all really appreciate and respect each other,” she says. [But] going back to the big, big picture; in context, there’s so much money in this world. There’s so much money being made through AI and through all this new technology, and the hoarding of it at the upper levels is equivalent to burning the platform that everyone is standing on and allowing everybody to fall into the abyss.”
She adds that AI itself isn’t inherently “good” or “bad,” either. “AI is just a tool, like a hammer. I can take my hammer and I can build you a house, or I can break your knees and take your stuff, and it was me who made the decision. It is the people and the human beings making the decision. Do not point to AI; look in the mirror.”
With all of that said, is she optimistic about where the gaming industry is headed? Her response, as it turns out, was just as powerful as something Commander Shepard herself might have said.
“I am, because to be anything else I can’t bear. I also firmly believe that where you look is where you’re going. And if we look into the hell of it all, that’s where we’re going. But if we look into the possibilities, the sky’s the limit, and if we take care of the people along the way, it can be a fantastic ride.”
This interview was edited for language and clarity.
Image credit: EA/Disney
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