Note 7 fires were caused by two separate battery issues, says WSJ

Comments

  • George

    I have 3 of them charging to 100% and green.
    Love my note 7s.
    Anything else I don’t care!

    • Dimitri

      You need help. That’s all.

    • Rev0lver

      Help and a set of Kevlar gloves.

    • It’s Me

      Darwin always wins in the end.

    • h2oflyer

      Tell those that are lining up for a ride on the beagle.

    • Rimtu Kahn

      How did you avoid forced update to first charge max 60% and later complete disablement?

    • George

      Rooted and removed update elements.

    • h2oflyer

      Please remove your too large batteries and file them down to a smaller size.

    • It’s Me

      He might have better luck using a dremel to really speed up the process.

    • thereasoner

      I’m sure that only a small percentage of batteries were affected but you’re taking your chances regardless.

    • It’s Me

      Who said that? A small percentage flamed up, but for all you know they were all affected. They were all recalled. That much is certain.

    • thereasoner

      Nobody. It just that I would have expected a much larger percentage of them to fail had every single battery been out of spec.

    • It’s Me

      Fair enough.

  • ciderrules

    Why do you keep quoting those hacks at Instrumental? They don’t even seem to know which way batteries expand and showed measurements from the two dimensions that don’t expand as evidence.

    If this report is true, then the battery compartment is fine and the issue was that the batteries (Samsung calls irregularly sized) were not manufactured to the same tolerances (size). So a battery that ended up being larger than normal (out of spec) could cause a fire because it couldn’t expand. The fault has nothing to do with the battery compartment being too small – it has to do with some batteries being made larger than specified. It’s poor quality control from the manufacturing line making the batteries.

    Which also makes all these reports from companies like Instrumental wrong. They would have needed access to dozens, if not hundreds of batteries/devices so they could measure each one and find out that the batteries were different sizes. But no, they can look at a single device and claim they have the answer. The sheer arrogance thinking they know more than the engineers at Samsung (and I don’t even like Samsung).

    • gommer strike

      Hello, ciderrules. Great to see you here.

      You seem to love saying, over and over, how arrogant they are, when we see this “Samsung identified as safe at the time of Note 7’s first recall, suffered from an “unidentified” manufacturing defect that only came up after ATL was asked to ramp up production”

      How much do we wanna bet that, when Samsung finally releases their big statement, that it’ll contain the words “battery”, “manufacturing defect”, “couldn’t expand”? You know it’s totally possible that Samsung sent out the very exacting specs to their battery suppliers, but the Note 7’s compartment ended up, for whatever reason, just a weeeee bit less than what they sent out.

      Let’s just take off the engineering hats and think from a layman’s perspective for a second. K, so the batteries weren’t sized properly(as they say). Or the compartment was made too small. Or maybe both, ya know? Oh the turkey’s a wee too big to fit in the oven. Or maybe I should have used a bigger oven.

      At the end of the day – if we had to just sum it up in a few words or less to a non-technical public who doesn’t care about nerdy engineering stuff – “battery too big”.

    • ciderrules

      This seems to really bother you.

      My point still stands and is 100% correct. There’s no way any “technician” looking at a Note 7 would be able to say the battery was too big for the following reasons.

      – They don’t have the design specs for the phone and how big the battery compartment is (it’s extremely unlikely the battery compartment changed sizes from one Note 7 to the next based on the manufacturing techniques used to make the cases).
      – They don’t have the design specs for the battery dimensions.
      – They never examined a large enough sample of phones so they could build up a database of any size discrepancies between cases or batteries.
      – They don’t know how much the batteries expand during charge/discharge cycles nor do they know the algorithm used for charging the battery.

      All they do is make a guess based on the common knowledge that lithium batteries swell and sometimes catch fire. They never performed any type of analysis that could allow them to come to this conclusion.

      It reminds me of Algebra in high school. You could guess the right answer but if you can’t show your work you don’t get any marks. You have to show how you arrived at the answer to prove you understand the material. The guys at Instrumental made fools of themselves by releasing pictures showing dimensions of the Note 7 battery compartment because the showed the WRONG dimensions. And uneducated people lap it up like it’s irrefutable fact.

    • gommer strike

      Actually it’s you who seems a lot more bothered by the whole thing.

      All Mobilesyrup did, was link some information from Android Authority. Now if you wanted to visit the online equivalent of bar where diehard Android users hang out, that would be *the* place.

      Check out their comments section. I’m not seeing very many of them contest the results. Oh sure there are plenty of flavorful comments, but on the whole, they’re pretty satisfied with the explanations. I’ll venture out to say that many of them are pretty smart guys.

      Samsung already stated it last year. Only a very miniscule, very small percentage of Note 7’s would ever see the issue. And here you are going, oh oh we don’t know enough, we didn’t examine enough, therefore we can’t know, and we’ll never know.

      Bottom line. The batteries erupted, we all know that. Are we going to just sit here and go “oh we don’t know, we don’t know” over and over to ourselves?

      I see them giving what look to be pretty informed, pretty good guesses. And here you are saying “there’s no evidence, there’s no proof, sample size is too small” yadda yadda yadda.

      I particularly love the “sample size is too small” which to your credit, can be used to shut down nigh any argument where numbers are brought up.

    • h2oflyer

      Sizing is not a problem with automated/robotic manufacturing….everything is consistent….you get all good or all garbage.

    • It’s Me

      That depends on the margins of error they allow. They could have tolerances of a few hundred micrometers or a few nanometers. Or even millimeter allowances. They should all fall with those guidences but they could fall anywhere within.

      But given they recalled every single one, there’s a good chance they were all garbage.

  • Rimtu Kahn

    Dang it, it’s not yet Sunday and there’s a leak on ms. Anyways if this leak is to be believed what a gigantic waste of resources time, money it cost all around for both Samsung and us for a perfectly good phone that at least in my mind was the best designed (though definitely not the best performing). I wished Samsung didn’t rush into a solution and worked out a proper replacement strategy. Oh well, at least I’m off of Samsung for good.

    • Sean-Paul

      Good riddance

  • It’s Me

    Samsung: We’ve identified the problem and will issues save replacements. Your safety is our number one concern.
    World: Um, they are still exploding and catching fire. There has to be at least one other problem.
    Samsung: After months of investigation, we’ve found one other problem. Your safety is our number one concern.

    If this is the outcome of their investigation, it could have been read from a predictable script months ago.

    • MoYeung

      It is not yet Sunday, so did Samsung said all this, or “voices in your head” said it?

    • It’s Me

      If this is the outcome of their investigation, it could have been read from a predictable script months ago.

      Do you understand the usage of the word “if”? Look, I know you are still struggling with the language but that’s no excuse for stupidity Mo. It explains why you are always complaining about having no money.

    • MoYeung

      Since Chinese New Year is coming at the end of the month, how about a chance for redemption? Monetary gift?

    • It’s Me

      Still with your hand out looking for change?

    • MoYeung

      I never expected big money from you. It’s for your atonement and a gesture of goodwill. I am surprised you can pay your home hydro bills in Ontario.

    • It’s Me

      Do you normally expect big money from strangers? Do you often find more than change in your cup?

    • MoYeung

      You have nothing to offer? Just say so. End of story.

    • It’s Me

      Correct. Nothing to offer to begger boys.

    • MoYeung

      Nothing to offer because you are cheap, morally bankrupt, greedy, lie to immigrants, running for a scam.

    • It’s Me

      Nah. Because I don’t believe it’s helpful to give to the lazy.

    • MoYeung

      This is pointless. When someone is unrepentant and refuses to make amends, what can I do?

    • It’s Me

      Beg more?

    • MoYeung

      Statement of Condemnation

    • It’s Me

      By begging.

      I get that you are broke, but have some dignity.

    • MoYeung

      You are repeating yourself again.

    • Captain Henry Morgan

      Mo, why don’t you leave Chinese New Year out of this and make good excuses to redeem yourself to @ItsTheRealMe:disqus

      LOL

    • MoYeung

      That “Rogered” dude has a rap sheet as long as my arm. I was giving him a chance for redemption.

    • Sean-Paul

      Trolling trolling trolling.

    • It’s Me

      How so?

  • h2oflyer

    The fact that simultaneous battery problems existed between two suppliers is probably BS.

    The fact that Samsung could climb to the top of the heap with something as great as the S7’s and couldn’t identify these problems doesn’t wash. Let’s wait for the real BS

    • thereasoner

      It does sound like a stretch to be sure. Samsung will have to show that the Note 7 battery was out of spec beyond tolerances when compared to other batteries of various sizes.

      As far as identifying said battery size tolerances I can see the difficulty there because the cells are only covered in a soft sleeve that has empty space around the edges unlike removable batteries with their hard shell.

      It will all come down to the tolerances allowed for in manufacturing and who ultimately is responsible to meet those tolerances. In the end Samsung will still be responsible, it’s their device and they were responsible for checking the battery manufacturers work. There just weren’t enough checks being done by either the battery manufacturers or Samsung if this is true.

    • Not for you

      There were simultaneous, but *different* problems.

  • thereasoner

    On one hand it seems plausible. The batteries are the softcase variety unlike those removable ones and the sleeve covering the cells have space in them around the edges obscuring the exact dimensions of those cells.

    On the other hand, many other devices from other OEM use the same supplier/s for batteries and would presumably also have been affected by those imprecise manufacturing methods and that brings us back to the size of the Note 7 battery compartment being insufficient for said imperfections.

    I’d imagine that Samsung must have thousands of batteries for the Note lying around and as a result this battery with inexact dimensions is easily verified by those independent labs that are supposed to verify Samsungs findings. That said, Samsung will also have to show that this problem is unique to this battery or at least that the incorrect battery sizing for the Note was more out of tolerance compared to other battery sizes/types for other devices.

  • h2oflyer

    I’m still saying it was a battery management issue.

    Put yourself in the sleazy bribing shoes of a Samsung executive. You discover immediately after launch of this incredible new phone that there is a battery problem and switch to another supplier and jeez a different battery problem now surfaces and you decide the best thing is to shut the Note7 down and take a multi billion dollar hit. All because nobody else could supply a good battery. Who comes up with this crap!

    My question to all the sleuths including myself is why was the Exynos S7 a much better performing and safer phone than the SD version. Was there a SD820 compatability issue with the Note 7 design?