Here’s the list of Canadian financial institutions, carriers and manufacturers working together on NFC mobile payments

Comments

  • Lexcyn

    That chart is the reason mobile payments will not catch on.

    This is such a mickey-mouse solution.

    Where is Google Wallet?

    • As long as we have our useless carriers thinking they are necessary to develop mobile payment apps, we’re never going to get anywhere.

    • Mario Gaucher

      it’s not just the carriers… it’s also the Canadian bank laws. It’s a lot more strict compared to the USA… Google and Apple might need to be incorporated as a bank to have their own payment system.

    • jroc

      This is what I have never understood. Why do the carriers need to be involved in this at all? If someone has the actual answer I’d love to hear it, as I am genuinely curious.

    • Stephen_81

      It was a 3 way battle
      Device makers/OS makers wanted to control the security on board like Google Wallet does.
      Carriers wanted the security tied into the SIM card as Carriers are the place people go to complain the most for anything phone related so they want to have the control. ( Wittnessed a lady YELLING and slamming her hand on the table at a Rogers store today because she couldn’t get into her email account and some how Rogers made her lose her hotmail password and enter it too many times so now her hotmail is locked out for 30 days)
      Banking Regulations are strong in Canada, we have more privacy rules, more regulations, and more checks and balances in our financial sector so you can’t just come in willy nilly and do stuff when it connects with your bank accounts and financial transactions. The banks are the back end, and front end your money starts there travels through the system and ends there so they have a lot of say and they wish to control the payment channels to maintain the integrity.

      SO much liability, so many big players. so many consumers who don’t have the foggiest idea about identity protection, or privacy laws. Makes for a messy messy and risky thing.

      (Note I’ve been using CIBC/Rogers for mobile payments since November 2011)

    • Jonavin

      No kidding. What a mess.

    • Mythos88

      Too many people are wary of handling over sensitive data to Google for GW to be the solution.

    • Andrew

      Seriously. It looks more like a Pokemon type-effectiveness chart than something anyone should be taking seriously.

      The way things are going, it’ll be another 5 years before mobile phone tap and pay is simple and commonplace in Canada. And I’m sure, somehow, either the banks or carriers (or both) will find a way to charge us for it.

  • Jeremy Janzen

    What an absolute mess… People wonder why Apple succeeds. Who can figure out stuff like the chart above? Apple brings together a feature like Apple Pay, in a way that works near-universally and with ease-of-use anyone can figure out.

    But I’m sure our banks will not want ‘to play ball’ for some time. I predict at least 1 year until Apple Pay comes to Canada.

    • Ryan Laker

      If you need a chart it’s already too complicated.

    • Blair Davis

      Just like we are still waiting for itunes Radio?

    • Tom Adams

      Apple pay will be easier to get international than radio was I think

    • mortenmhp

      Haha the financial sector is hardly any easier to get to go along than the music industry…

    • gommer strike

      And also the rules and landscape are totally different. When we think back to the days of when mp3’s just came out, and the music industry simply didn’t have the technical know-how, nor the ability to implement anything workable, which was also consumer-friendly and made people want to use it. They had to come to Apple for help, and thus iTunes was born.

      With financial institutions, it isn’t nearly the same “problem”, per se. They would be happy to just have people conduct their payments the old-fashioned way, using a simple credit card with legacy payment experience that non-techies can understand. Identity theft and so on is a problem true, but I’m not sure it’s huge enough for the banks when they can just tell the customer to cancel their credit card number if it’s lost/stolen.

      I hope it takes off, but it does feel like Apple’s coming and solving a problem, one which the banks never invited them to come solve.

    • KiwiBri

      Apple Pay will come soon, they will want to cash in on the market share of devices.. and most people are ignorant of technology “unless Apples does something” and the mainstream media report on it.

    • Stephen_81

      Apple is building this technology for the patch work of the US financial system. countries like ours which have well built strong systems don’t need to bend to the will as much, BUT US companies in Canada will push I’m sure to bring systems like this into Canada in the hopes of being able to purchase users purchasing patterns from companies like Google and Apple.

  • There’ll have to be some sort of open standard or consortium established to make this all happen so that adoption is possible for the majority of Canadian consumers.

    I don’t know if the banks will be working on their own proprietary software or hardware, but this isn’t a zero sum game. Like it or not Google or Apple will elbow their way to the table and get their piece of the payments pie. Everyone will have to play somewhat nicely

    • Vandm

      Interac which is already a not for profit consortium to manage debit transactions in Canada is why we have such huge chip and nfc adoption. If Apple can work with them and the banks it’ll be done quickly. They’ll likely consider that apple pay will act like any point of sale system and allow it to run through our current system.

  • Samuel Gomez Recuero

    Useless. What we need is the plateform iOS, Windows or Android to host the payment plateform where the user can just enter a given card and that is all. The plateform takes care of the rest, Kudos to Apple for bringing this first.

    • pegger1

      Apple gains the most from these transactions. And financial institutions aren’t going to be so quick to give them their cut of the pie, if they can do it themselves and keep it all.

    • FlamesFan89

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but Google Wallet does what you are describing, and has been on the market for a while now. Not in Canada mind you, but it exists. You should direct your kudos elsewhere.

      Replace the “(DOT)”s below with an actual “.” to get the link.
      Note that the first link is for a video from 2011

      http://youtu(DOT)be/NKuUzNnb8aQ
      http://youtu(DOT)be/BAhXK-ATKWw

    • gommer strike

      While what you say is true, why hasn’t Google Wallet caught on, the way Apple Pay is lighting a fire on the news of late? Why didn’t everyone go nuts over Google Wallet way back in 2011?

      I should be seeing an enormous collective yawn from Android users, all saying “been doing this since 2011 Apple. Just bought my groceries with Google Wallet #welcometo2011”

      I’m not seeing that.

    • FlamesFan89

      Perhaps you aren’t listening. I have been seeing comments all over the web about GW being able to do what AP does.

      The issue is not with GW, it is with the limited number of stores that offer the service, as well as carriers like Verizon specifically disabling the use of NFC payments via GW in favour of their own app.

    • gommer strike

      The point I’m making is, why aren’t these stores adopting gw? What’s wrong with them? Why is Apple suddenly ok, but gw was not? shouldn’t gw have made waves at least 5 years ago? Why the holdup? Look at the news around us and notice that suddenly financial institutions are all of a sudden, talking about NFC when 5 years ago it should have been android + NFC at McDonald’s, Whole Foods etc. why Apple now? Why not android, ages ago?

    • FlamesFan89

      The list of stores that will accept Apple Pay is almost identical to those that accept GW. As for financial institutions, the US as a whole is on the verge of adopting chip and pin technology for cards, and likely along with that nfc enabled cards like Mastercard paypass, which is completely independent of Apple doing anything.

      Listen, I’m a huge supporter of apple adding nfc payments, because the more players in the game the faster adoption will be. All I’m saying is that Apple hasn’t done anything new here. It is 100% catch up. There is nothing wrong with that, but people shouldn’t pretend it is anything more than it really is.

    • Nadefrenzy

      Apple does have the demand and brand name to market trends, as is the case here. THAT is why we hear about Apple Pay now and not so much Google wallet.

    • FlamesFan89

      There’s also the fact that Apple Pay was announced on Tuesday and Google Wallet was announced FOUR YEARS AGO. But, let’s not let logic get in the way of a nice story.

    • Nadefrenzy

      Sorry but you can’t deny it. Leaders of the market are almost always the trend setters. Same can be said for Samsung and their Phablets.

      Google just didn’t have as good marketing as that of Apple or Samsung.

    • FlamesFan89

      I’m not the one denying things here. Apple isn’t setting any trend. The trend is already set, NFC payments exist be it with Google Wallet, or others, and adoption is increasing, albeit at a glacial pace, but it exists, and with some massive businesses like Radioshack, Toys ‘R’ Us, Walgreens, CVS Pharmacy, McDonald’s, The Home Depot, Tim Hortons, BP, Sunoco… the list goes on. You can’t deny that.

      The trend is not being set by Apple. Will Apple being in the game give the trend a swift kick in the rear end to get it on a steeper climb? You bet’cha! But they are joining an existing trend, just as they are with phablets.

      You are also denying the time aspect. You seem to be claiming that the only reason we are hearing about NFC payments is because of Apple. Apple just announced Apple Pay this week. It would be absolutely shocking for any company that big to announce ANYTHING and it NOT to be in the news that very same week. Google on the other hand did NOT announce NFC payments this week, and so the news is, shocker, not talking about something that didn’t happen.

      Google didn’t have as good marketing as that of Apple… I’ll give you that, because I’m not sure ANY company has as good of marketing as Apple. They absolutely rule the market in that regard. On that, there is no denying, but you can’t ignore facts just to suit your own story, or, well, I guess YOU can. 😉

    • Nadefrenzy

      tl;dr

    • FlamesFan89

      It’s okay to admit that it was simply over your head.

    • Nadefrenzy

      Dimwit, I’m an Android user myself. So cut the bs, and the subtle insults.

      “and so the news is, shocker, not talking about something that didn’t happen.”

      Sure, but you still hear about it from people, media etc. You don’t hear anything about Google Wallet. You will mostly hear about Apple Pay now.

      “You seem to be claiming that the only reason we are hearing about NFC payments is because of Apple.”

      I never said that. Techies have known about this stuff for ages. However, I said that most people will hear about Apple Pay as opposed to Google Wallet. NFC payments as a result will be promoted thanks to Apple due to better marketing.

    • FlamesFan89

      I agree with you, and said as much, about Apple having better marketing, and I also agree that the fact that Apple is doing it now will mean NFC payments get way more coverage and interest from the general public, because, well, Apple.

      What I disagree with though is the insinuation that Apple is setting the trend, rather than joining it, and that Apple Pay’s presence in the news vs GW’s presence in the news has nothing to do with timing. It has a lot to do with the Apple effect, and their superiour marketing, but it also has to do with the fact that it was JUST released, where as comparatively GW has been around for a long time. You can’t deny that.

      On the topic of trend setting. Claiming that Apple is the trend setter for NFC payments is like saying that FUBU is the trend setter for hoodies and jeans. They will sell like hotcakes, and get lots of press, but they are JOINING an existing trend, not setting it.

      I’m happy to give Apple the credit due for marketing it and pushing the industry forward, but I’m also happy to properly attribute the credit for those who helped to create the space in the market in the first place.

    • Nadefrenzy

      They are joining the trend, sure. However, to the masses who aren’t so techsavvy or “tech-literate”, it appears to them as if Apple has set this trend, and in reality that’s what matters right? ergo Samsung vs HTC. Nobody cares about the cool stuff HTC has done with their phones’ design/speakers etc, because the masses haven’t heard of it.

    • FlamesFan89

      Can we agree that “the masses” suck? 🙂

    • Stephen_81

      You could pay with Google Wallet at McDonalds and various other places in the US for years. Apple has more clout than Google does though and will get banks to bend to their will.
      The US is full of wild west type banks no organization or consistency Google didn’t change that they built a system made to accommodate that.
      Apple is looking to force their way and has the market share, marketing dollars, and know how to make a big enough dent to have it happen.

      I think the identity theft market is creaming their pants right now with excitement for Apple to be opening this system up to the masses.

    • Richard Wangly

      Because ISIS blocked them out – both in the sense that it was the default payment method for the biggest carriers, and also by (mostly) preventing Wallet from working properly.

    • Samuel Gomez Recuero

      I know google wallet, what I meant that it is useless for finacial institutions to work on a system like that. Cause they you are bound to be with that financial instution, what we need is a payment system that will be indenpendent of the financial institution. Here google wallet is blocked as might apple payment cause those same institutions do not want to lose the hold they have on the transaction processing.

    • FlamesFan89

      Ok…

      I agree. But in your first post you said kudos to Apple for being the first, but they aren’t. I’m not even sure Google Wallet is. All I’m saying is that you are directing your credit in the wrong direction.

    • Samuel Gomez Recuero

      Once again I meant for being able to bring it to canadian market

    • FlamesFan89

      Fair enough.

  • E. R

    Shame that it doesn’t apply to Nexus devices.

  • Entegy

    Does it have to be Android or BlackBerry? I have a NFC-enabled Windows Phone with a NFC SIM card from Virgin. I haven’t had the chance to test it out yet, but I see no reason why I couldn’t use my phone for mobile payments right now.

    • Ry29

      It’s because there is no app for Windows Phone.

      All these Carriers/Banks here in Canada insist on developing from the ground up for ‘their’ solution, hence the problem.

    • Entegy

      Why do I need an app? My payment details are already stored in the phone’s Wallet. I could understand needing an app for a loyalty card, such as Tim Hortons, but just my credit card?

    • Ry29

      The question could be expanded to, why even need a special NFC sim? Android (for example) has Host Card Emulation, which effectively negates the need for an nfc-enabled sim. It’s just the way the banks/carriers decided to implement it here.

    • Jeff Brassard

      I’ve been looking into this too as I have a NFC enabled Windows Phone but don’t yet have the NFC chip. The wallet app from Microsoft should work in theory but I can’t seem to turn on NFC payments in the wallet app. Hopefully this gets enabled eventually but like everything else carriers and banks want their share of the pie as though they aren’t getting enough money from us already.

    • Entegy

      The tap to pay option is in Settings>NFC, not Wallet.

    • Jeff Brassard

      Still need a secure sim to make it work I think

    • Entegy

      Oh. Yes, yes you do. I went and specifically asked for one with Virgin and got one.

  • Merags

    The only bank that supports my phone is RBC (and I’m with CIBC who still doesn’t support any 2014 flagships). Why do the phones need to be individually supported?? I’m not a dev, but are they just lazy or is it more difficult to develop a payment app than basically every other android app in existence.

  • John W

    Why is this phone dependent? Why are carriers involved in this at all?

  • Leo

    This entire chart may just go away in the next year. What truly makes Apple Pay work is not an Apple innovation but functionality provided directly by Visa. It’s visa’s token service that creates those random numbers not associated with your name or real card numbers. All apple does is in simplistic way is marry NFC with passbook functionality to ensure security. Visa token will come to google wallet and the banks in 2015

  • JTon

    This is rare. There are more questions than answers in this discussion! It’s clear to me that we’re all hungry for some more information on this topic

  • Chris R. Harris

    Why hasn’t Interac taken a lead on this? Seems like a non brainer for them

  • Dimitri

    I seem to have the worst bank and carrier when it comes to the support of this service, Scotia and TELUS.Sadly, i’m probably gonna have to wait a while to get it.

    • KiwiBri

      Avenged Sevenfold fan? nice 🙂

      Hail to the King!

    • 737av8r

      Scotia, Telus, and a Nexus 4. I remember when I got my Samsung Galaxy S2 with NFC. I thought NFC pay solutions were just around the corner…. Then things became sadly disillusioning..

  • KiwiBri

    Why is this restricted to models of phones? I thought it would just be Android + NFC ???

    • WTangoFoxtrot

      android is too fragmented that’s why. for example they develop one app for BlackBerry10 and it just works on all BB10 variants.

  • Jim47452

    The carriers provide the data. They should not even be allowed in the room where this gets discussed.

  • Thomas Ramsay

    What about the Nexus 4 and 5 they support NFC, but are not on the list of supported devices

  • Maxwell M

    This article should be titled “Here’s the list of carriers & banks colluding together to scam you out of money

  • Beno

    Your list is very very interesting.

    Up to now, I used :

    Rogers with CIBC
    Rogers with TD
    Rogers with Desjardins

    The best one is Rogers with TD because there are only 2 steps to pay:

    1. you take your phone out of your pocket (you do not even have to open the case of the phone)

    2. hold the back of your phone in front of the merchant’s terminal

    And it is paid!

    By the way, you forgot to mention Suretap wallet from Rogers in your list.
    It is the one who has the most supported phones.
    My understanding is that Rogers is the bank.

  • Norman Fong

    Doesn’t Bell own Virgin Mobile up here in Canada? if so then it is strange that TD isn’t supported.

  • J-Ro

    I will never understand the need to want to spend money so fast. Only place in Canada that needs help with people cashing out is walmart. Other than that, lines never really get that long.

    • purdy44

      Fast food chains and coffee shops.

    • J-Ro

      I can see that being an issue in the states but most of our debit and credit cards have tap technology. The only issue is that some places don’t take it. If Apple can cause all business to update their POS systems, I would be impressed.

  • jeff

    I have been waiting for the ability to pay with my phone forever… But I’m not jumping through the hoops as the above chart shows. I use my Visa for everything and really enjoy using the tap to pay for smaller transactions. If visa made an app that you added your credit card info to and then did the verified by visa thing to confirm, add a quick pin to it for transactions…. How would that not be safe enough.? Someone takes my wallet with my Visa card in it and they can buy quite a bit (in small tap to pay or pay wave transactions).

  • Interesting to see that none of the carriers / banks support Nexus line of devices!

  • Alejandro Moreno

    The big difference is Google wallet needs the operators to have a sim card with mambo jumbo stuff, you have to go to the store and exchange your sim, they have to approve it in a white list, etc…… So complicated,
    Now Apple is doing something that just works, you enter your card (numbers or take a picture that will type-in the numbers for you, dah) and that’s it. No permissions required from anybody , just you willing to take on the technology and evolve 🙂 ( i know i little bias )

    I say Apple, bring the good stuff to Canada!!!!!

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