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New iPhones likely to feature 4.7 and 5.5-inch sapphire crystal displays

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9to5Mac had previously done some great investigative work revealing Apple’s possible intentions to produce sapphire crystal displays for future iPhones, based upon manufacturing deals with GT Advanced. A new patent filed by Apple all but confirms 9to5Mac’s suspicions that sapphire crystal displays are on their way.

The patent, titled Oleophobic coating on sapphire, and describes the process through which the coating could be applied to a sapphire slap prior to installation on a mobile device (the patent makes repeated mention of sapphire displays in smartphones and tablets). Oleophobic coatings were used for the iPhone 3GS, but dropped in favour of repellent coating when Apple made the switch to Gorilla Glass.

As we’ve noted before, sapphire crystal displays are very strong and scratch resistant, and would offer a suitable replacement to the current Gorilla Glass iPhone displays. The patent’s appearance at this time (it was initially filed September of last year) makes it likely that we will see the new displays in the next round of iPhone devices, which have consistently been pegged at 4.7 and 5.5 inch screen sizes. However, as some of our commenters have noted, the sapphire crystal could be also used in smartwatch production.

  • beyond

    finally

    • It’s Me

      Yup.

      ““Chemically strengthened glass can be excellent, but sapphire is better in terms of hardness, strength, and toughness,” says Matthew Hall, Director of the Center for Advanced Ceramic Technology at the Kazuo Inamori School of Engineering at Alfred University. “The fracture toughness of sapphire should be around 4 times greater than Gorilla Glass – about 3 MPa-m0.5 versus 0.7 MPa-m0.5, respectively.”
      The hardness of sapphire will make it resistance to ‘flaw initiation’ (aka starting to scratch) and its ‘toughness’ is how it resists fracture once a flaw has begun (cracking altogether). ”

      Physically combine this with something like GC and it makes all of the FUD in this thread seem like thoughtless noise.

      This is Corning’s response to sapphire:
      “When we look at it, we see a lot of disadvantages of Sapphire versus Gorilla Glass. It’s about 10 times more expensive. It’s about 1.6 times heavier. It’s environmentally unfriendly. It takes about 100 times more energy to generate a Sapphire crystal than it does glass. It transmits less light which…means either dimmer devices or shorter battery life. It continues to break. I think while it’s a scratch resistant product it still breaks and our testing says that Gorilla Glass [can take] about 2.5 times more pressure that it can take…Sapphire on. So when we look at it, we think from an overall industry and trend that is not attractive in consumer electronics.”
      So, let’s look at his points:

      10x more expensive
      -Then I guess there would have to a compelling reason for any company to even consider it
      1.6x heavier
      -only at the same thickness. Used as a veneer, something reportedly being researched and patented, it is lighter.
      100x the energy to produce
      -damn good thing the GT plant that Apple is building is expected to use 100% renewable energy, much of that installed by Apple.
      Transmits less light
      -only at the same thinkness
      Continues to break
      -as does GG
      Can take about 2.5x the pressure
      -valid point and his only valid point. One wonders if GT and Apple are researching ways to mitigate this.

      All in all, a pretty weak response. That is pretty telling.

    • Josh Brown

      It is important to note that in the literal sense, hardness is not synonymous with strength. Brittleness basically indicates how resistant the material is to plastic deformation. A very brittle material will, when placed under stress, break/fracture rather than bend. In the case of a sapphire crystal versus a glass crystal, the sapphire is considerably more brittle. As a result, a sapphire crystal is more likely to chip or crack than is glass counterpart if both are subjected to an equally hostile stress (banging, etc.).

    • It’s Me

      no question. When both are in pristine condition.

      I wonder if anyone is researching ways to mitigate this.

    • Josh Brown

      If they could some how put a film of sapphire on GG and still be flexible. That would be the best. But as it is a 1mm thick piece of super brittle material is not the answer.

    • It’s Me

      Good idea. Seems somehow familiar

    • Plazmic Flame

      103 comments… da faq is going on here?!?!? Anyways… hope that we do see that 5.5 inch iPhone become a reality.

  • Eluder

    4.7″ sure, 5.5″? I absolutely can’t see Apple do that considering how puny their screens have been for so long. I just hope they move away from their big arse bezel and get rid of that crappy single home button (which I know is a pipe dream).

    • Blu Jay

      I personnaly like the home button, but I agree with you get rid of the bezel

    • TrainAss

      If the iPhone 5 is any indication, it’ll be a vertical increase in size as opposed to a horizontal.

    • Eluder

      Doubt that this time around since the whole marketing spin with the 5 was that you could use it with one hand. There’s no way a phone at 4.7″ can be used with one hand, no matter how narrow it is as vertically it would look idiotic and just not work. Guess we’ll have to wait and see, but either way, I’m not expecting much out of Apple as everyone else has long surpassed them and there’s not much left in this industry from a h/w standpoint to improve on.

    • TrainAss

      I currently have an S3, which has a 4.8″ screen, now i’m a 30yo male @ 6’4″ so I have no issues with using my phone with one hand, I can see those with smaller hands having an issue, but if Apple doesn’t adapt and start matching screen sizes with the other phones on the market, they’re going to have issues. I have to use an iPhone 5S as my on-call phone, and hate it (iOS aside) because the screen is so much smalle. I find that I can’t get as much information and things just seem squished more. And then there’s the keyboard. Because of the smaller screen, and my hand size, I find myself hitting the wrong keys, and double typing letters, etc.

  • Nachotech

    Knowing Apple, these two new iphones will be priced at $899 and $999+ considering the prices of their tiny 4 inch phones and the somewhat new tech involved.

    • Generalissimo_S

      As someone who is actually looking forward to large iPhones… sigh, I know.

      The worst part is I can’t even renew my contract (Bell) because the new 2 year contracts blow. I’ll be sticking with my Nexus 5, thankyouverymuch.

    • blzd

      Thank goodness for Nexus devices. Contracts, TAKE A HIKE!

    • alphs22

      Sigh, another hater spreading FUD.

      Since Apple started selling iPhones off contract, there hasn’t been any price increases. iPhones 4 to 5s were all released at $649US. So much for “knowing Apple” huh?

      Unless the CAD weakens significantly in the next half a year, your prices are quite farfetched. At current rates these will probably be released at $700-$749.

    • Nachotech

      Umm, I don’t know what your smoking bud, but the iPhone 5s is currently selling for $719 and it was released 6 months ago. That’s the 16GB version. The 32 and 64 versions are $819 and $919 respectively. And at some carriers it starts at $729.

      $899 and $999 is a conservative estimate really. Do you really think Apple is going to release a 4.7 inch phone at the same price as their 4 inch phones?

    • alphs22

      And how much is $649US in CAD?

      Go ahead, use that internet.

    • Nachotech

      This is a Canadian site bud. People are buying their phones from Canadian carriers, and that’s what the iPhone costs here. Can it be purchased cheaper in other countries? Sure. We’re talking Canadian prices – that’s kinda the whole point of this website in cased you missed it champ.

    • alphs22

      So you’re going to blame Apple for the weakening Canadian dollar? Interesting.

    • pewpew

      He’s actually not far off.
      Based on XE, the exchange for $649USD is $717.85CAD

    • alphs22

      That’s exactly my point.

      The price of the iPhone in Canada went up because of the weakening CAD, not because Apple randomly raises them.

    • Sukhvir Gill

      You mean stronger CAD

    • It’s Me

      Stronger? Since spring of 2011, our dollar has been generally trending down. The dip in the last few months has been a little bit of a faster drop, but the trendline is pretty clearly down over the last 3 years and especially since fall 2012.

    • alphs22

      Seems like you haven’t been paying attention the last 2 years.

    • blzd

      They set that price for Canadians no matter what the dollar was going to be lol. If you’re Canadian you would’ve seen this a thousand times before and understand how companies use that only as an excuse to RAISE prices. If the CDN dollar suddenly jumps ahead you can wait YEARS to see any reduction in pricing.

      Google sells their Nexus devices for the exact same price in USD and CDN. Coincidence? I think no.

    • alphs22

      We get shafted a lot compared to the States, I get it. However your complaint is out of place here since Apple actually released the iPhone 4 and 4s at the same price as the US when our dollar was at parity.

      Canadian dollar started to slip and to protect revenues they raised prices in Canada. This isn’t rocket science.

    • It’s Me

      I remember before the original iPad came out. People said “knowing Apple, it will be $1200″. When rumours came out about Retina on the iPhone 4, people said the price was going to jump. People always think they know.

    • Nachotech

      It’s hard to imagine Apple selling a 4.7″ phone at the same price as their 4″ phones unless they plan on discontinuing their 4″ lineup.

    • It’s Me

      Why? They have continually integrated things into their products that could arguably have been used to justify raising their prices but they have tended to hold the line. They were the first or one of the first to move to gorilla glass while other didn’t and they didn’t raise their prices. They invested and continue to invest in developing their own processors while others use much cheaper off the shelve parts and didn’t raise their prices. They went to a slightly larger display and didn’t raise their prices. Back in 2010, they moved to what was an almost unheard of DPI with retina and didn’t raise prices. They invest heavily in developing their own battery chemistry and haven’t raised their prices. The invested in in-cell displays when they could have used off the shelve like others and didn’t raise prices.

      The size of the display is only one (arguably very small) contributor to the price of the phone. Why would you expect it to contribute more to a price increase when other aspects, that could or should have justified as much or more of a hike, have not?

    • cartfan88

      Ah what would an Apple thread be without it’s me or alphs22 deflecting or singing their praises…. How about that price hike from the mini to mini retina? Nice job holding the line there. Forget back in 2010… That was 2013.

    • PeterC

      People thought the iPad was going to be over $1000 because they assumed it would run mac os x, not iOS.

    • It’s Me

      Ok

    • It’s Me

      Just more bad assumptions

    • Nik Iafrancesco

      Why? I can’t imagine they would increase the price for the 4.7″ version. Didn’t the iPhone 5 cost the same at launch as the 4S did?

    • cartfan88

      Ever heard of the iPad mini retina?

  • It’s Me

    If properly implemented, sapphire will be much more than a suitable replacement for gorilla glass, it will be a far superior alternative to gorilla glass. If it wasn’t, then Apple has no need to spend hundreds of millions on developing sapphire. They could simply continue to source from corning. They were one of the first to use GG, so there would have to be a business or technical reason to switch to sapphire. Given sapphire is significantly more expensive at the moment, that leaves technical reasons.

    • Zee

      Technical reason? I think this is Apple’s way of keeping their price abnormally high and selling it to their customer base by touting how fantastic sapphire is. They’ll come up with some great marketing spin for it to be sure.

    • mathieulefrancois

      I tend to agree with you more. Apple is a huge marketing machine, all they really care about is profit.

    • It’s Me

      The other OEMs don’t?

    • blzd

      Market share is also highly sought after.

    • It’s Me

      It is and the race to the bottom for the sake of marketshare has left them all bleeding.

      Do the other OEM’s love you and care about you? I mean, if they don’t care about profit and can’t gain any marketshare, do they love us?

    • blzd

      Indeed they do. We are their customers, without us they do not exist. Apple users wouldn’t understand this mentality.

    • It’s Me

      So, Apple’s customers aren’t Apple’s customers? Apple would exist with no customers?

      Seriously? This is best you guys have these days?

    • blzd

      I said no such thing. Good attempt though.

    • It’s Me

      Umm dude, you said the other OEMs love and care for you because you are their customer and they need you. That’s exactly what you said.

      So, now you are either a liar or confused. Nice clear thinking.

      When I asked if they love you, you answered:

      “Indeed they do. We are their customers, without us they do not exist. Apple users wouldn’t understand this mentality.”

    • blzd

      OK I can see you lack any form of rationality. No wonder every other post here is yours. Let me break down how questions work for you.

      You asked: “So, Apple customers aren’t Apple’s customers? Apple would exist with no customers? Seriously? This is best you guys have these days?”

      I respond with: “I said no such thing.” Do you see how questions and responses relate to each other better now? Seriously dude take a break haha.

    • It’s Me

      So then your comments about OEMs caring about you more than Apple, with you rational being they do so because you are a customer, was meaningless in the context of being different than Apple. I see.

      Our education system must really suck.

    • blzd

      You’re losing control over your typing now. Calm down and take a break before you pop a blood vessel lol. Man, you Apple fanboys crack me up.

    • It’s Me

      Stupidity bothers me. It’s a pet peeve I guess.

    • blzd

      You shouldn’t get so worked up over such things.

    • realitycheck

      The other oems care about profit just as much as apple. They could have released updates to their older phones like apple does for legacy devices(ie ios7 for iphone4) but instead they’d rather you buy a new phone.

    • alphs22

      Sapphire is more scratch-resistant than Gorilla Glass. This is fact, not marketing lol.

    • Josh Brown

      But fare more brittle so it will smash easier. Corning can make Sapphire but decided it was to brittle to survive a drop. Search Gorilla Glass vs. Sapphire on youtube.

    • It’s Me

      Corning could make sapphire but the cost to produce with investing many hundreds of millions into developing it means that they would have to charge far more than their OEM customers are willing to pay.

    • Josh Brown

      Investing millions of dollars in to sapphire will not make it flexible. That is why corning gave up on it.

    • It’s Me

      yeah, that’s why. I guess that’s also why Apple decided against it.

    • blzd

      Which of course no one would pay more for when Corning has clearly demonstrated it’s a lesser product.

      But then Apple has never shied away from using over priced parts with little to no real world benefits.

    • It’s Me

      Apple is quite well know for being able to cut costs, especially under Cook. Why would the spend hundreds of millions as a marketing gimmick when they could spend $0 and use the same marketing?

      Corning really hasn’t demonstrated anything.

    • blzd

      Cutting costs at the expense of underpaid manufacturer workers, maybe.

    • Zee

      Who cares if it’s more scratch resistant than Gorilla Glass? I don’t see a huge problem of scratched phones out there. I’ve been using smartphones since 2008 and haven’t had any situations where a scratch was an issue. This is a pure marketing move and nothing at all to do with providing a better overall experience.

    • alphs22

      Microscopic scratches compromise the strength of the glass, making them more prone to cracks and shattering when dropped.

    • It’s Me

      One of the main reasons for GG to even exist is its higher level of scratch resistance. A major point of concern for ceramics and glass is that scratches weak the surface and make it susceptible to cracking and fracture, hence the chemical treatment of GG that helps make it GG.

      It’s a hell of an expensive marketing move. Surely they could find a less expensive alternative if all they wanted was marketing fodder.

    • It’s Me

      Take a minute and think that through. You really think Apple is going to spend hundreds of millions of their own real dollars and pay 10X the unit price for a component of inferior quality or similar at best, so that they can then hopefully find a way to charge more for their end product? That’s your business model? Somehow, I don’t think Apple became the most profitable company in the world by looking for ways to unnecessarily raise their own costs by orders or magnitude.

      All it would take is one respected tech blogger to provide proof that their sapphire display is no better than GC and that is hundreds of millions flushed down the toilet. Great business model.

      Wouldn’t it be cheaper and easier to simply claim their display is as good or better, using their vaunted marketing abilities? Zero extra cost over their competitors and exactly the same end result that you propose.

    • Josh Brown

      Look up Gorrila Glass 2 vs. Sapphire. Yes it is very scratch resistant but the trade off is that is brittle. Sapphire breaks at 160 lbs of force because it is so ridge, the GG gets up to 436 lbs.

    • It’s Me

      Then one might expect they won’t simply be using raw sapphire but instead a combination of sapphire and another material.

      Wait, that’s exactly what they and AdvancedGT have newly issued (and filed) patents for.

      Also, with displays, what can often lead to fracture is scratches. As soon as the surface is scored, the strength is significantly diminished. A veneer of sapphire on top of GC or a similar material, would offer the best of both.

    • Josh Brown

      That video they scratch The display in a tumbler for 45 min before the test.

    • PeterC

      I’ve never heard of complaints from people that their phone screens are all scratched up. So, making the phone screen or camera lens more scratch proof sounds like a marketing gimmick, just like Apple’s 64bit cpus in their current phones.

      What would be better is making the phone water/dust proof, cause I have heard people complain about dust getting under their iPad screens or iPhone camera lens.

    • It’s Me

      I agree about the waterproofing and dusting proofing being needed. Nice to see Samsung doing that.

      As for [improved] anti scratch being a gimmick, there is a multimillion (billion?) industry that disagrees with you. Corning is investing many millions more on improving the scratch resistance of GG. But what do they know. You should write to them.

      And 64bit being a gimmick? That’s even more of a joke. I guess you should call Samsung, Qualcomm and google and tell them to stop working on 64 bit for mobile (android) because they sinking lots of money on that.

      It’s funny how some people think everything they don’t understand is a gimmick…at least until their company tells them it’s ok to believe otherwise.

      (edited for FlamesFan89, clarified “improved” anti scratch)

    • It’s Me

      Addressable memory is only one, albeit the biggest, advantage of 64 bit. The move to 64 but also requires more and wider registers which means accessing more memory faster. A 64 bit processor can also complete some types of calculations up to twice as fast as 32 bit. Third, while addressable memory limits is higher, 64 bit allows for larger blocks of continuous memory meaning massively less memory fragmentation, which again aides performance. All of that is over and above the advantage of addressable memory limits.

      So, while you may not understand the advantages of a feature, that hardly makes it a gimmick. Just like people used to say retina was a gimmick, now those people are demanding dpi levels that truly are at the level gimmick. Ironic.

    • FlamesFan89

      You’ve presented a strawman here in regards to scratch resistance. The argument is not that scratches are never a problem and therefore we should just use ordinary glass, and sapphire is therefore a gimmick.

      The argument is that there is an existing product that performs extremely well, and offers exceptional scratch resistance as well as being less brittle than sapphire. With that in mind, sapphire is considerably more expensive, without even factoring in the R&D costs, so to tout it as being more scratch resistant is more marketing gimmick than actual benefit. Just as packing far more pixels into a display than are needed is gimmick as well. The end user is not actually seeing any benefit, but is likely seeing a drawback, be it cost, or a more brittle screen, worse battery life or what have you.

    • It’s Me

      Given that Corning itself is investing many millions into improving the scratch resistance of GG above what it currently provides, I would posit that Corning disagrees with you. I expect they are doing so at the request of their customers so, I expect Samsung, Apple and the other OEMs also disagree with your position that improved scratch resistance is a gimmick.

      I suppose one could argue cornings work is still simply a gimmick but it’s an awfully expensive gimmick.

      And yes, sapphire production is more expensive, but is largely a factor of scale. If only a company or companies were willing to invest heavily in it in order to bring economies of scale to bear and reduce the cost differential…

    • FlamesFan89

      Just to be clear, I wasn’t making the argument. I was pointing out your logical fallacy.

      Companies can sink all the money they want into making better glass and better displays. The end result is that we get better products in the end.

      That said, I’ve never scratched my phone, but I keep it in a case to protect in the event of a drop, and am careful to always put it in a pocket that doesn’t have anything that will scratch it, like keys or coins. It often shocks me how people treat their multi-hundred dollar devices.

    • It’s Me

      There was no logically fallacy, you simply misrepresented what I said. Where did I ever claim that scratches were never a problem or that we should use normal glass or claim that anyone ever said that?

      My position is that sapphire could be used to help with improving scratch resistance. Further, if someone is going to claim that sapphire is simply a gimmick, I’d like a better argument than simply “because Apple” or “because GG is good enough”. You presented an interesting position to defend your claim, that being that GG is good enough. I disagree and it seems the major players in the industry also disagree. The simple, unarguable fact, is that displays, even those using GG, do still scratch. That’s a problem that can lead to failure. It’s great it hasn’t happened to you, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

      I’ve scratched my displays a few times, though I do not know how. I don’t use a case or screen protector, but I tend to treat my phones fairly well. Nothing else is generally in the same pocket, so it wasn’t a case of keys scratching it (but keys and coins should not have the hardness required to scratch GG anyway).

    • FlamesFan89

      “because apple” was not his argument (though his was not much better), it was that he hasn’t heard of people having a problem with scratches. The implication here is that phone displays are scratch resistant enough already, and don’t need to be improved upon.

      Whatever, it is all moot, because I really don’t care if Apple uses sapphire, or GG, or some sort of transparent play-doh that self heals. If it works, great. That means better devices for everyone.

      Keep in mind though, that many of your own responses on this article have been basically “because Apple” but with the opposite meaning, i.e. “because Apple” is doing it, it must be veritable fact that it is better. It might be better, but just because Apple is doing it doesn’t guarantee that.

    • It’s Me

      I see where your concern about my post is now. I have edited it to clarify that I was responding to his claim about _improved_ antiscratch being a gimmick and not antiscratch itself. My point, however, still stands, that there is a helluva lot of money being spent by many parties that know better than any of us to suggest it is just a gimmick. Gimmicks usually are intended to improve price and sales without spending lots of money.

      None of my arguments have come down to “because Apple”. I don’t care if it is Apple or anyone else. Spending these levels of money on real R&D can only be explained by a real belief that there is a problem to be addressed or an improvement that is necessary. If corning is right, that they can produce a better product, then more power to them. The only “because Apple” argument I would ever make is one that is predicated on their historical patterns. They have a pattern of very restrained and conservative spending. They have a pattern of focused R&D that try to get the most bang for their buck. if one if going to claim that are spending this type of money on a gimmick with vaporous advantages that could easily be disproved with a finished product, I’d like to see some evidence that would convince me they would break their fiscal and developmental patterns.

    • It’s Me

      I replied off of my post since yours had URLs and was blocked.

    • blzd

      You give too much credit. You’re essentially saying “Apple can do no wrong, so if they’re doing this it must be right.”

      Let’s not forget their first attempts with sapphire covered camera lenses giving off purple hews from light sources. They spent millions developing that as well.

    • It’s Me

      Nope. I’m saying, since the use GG right now, why would the spend hundreds of millions to use something inferior? They continue to use sapphire with their camera lenses because it is demonstrably superior for their needs of unscratched camera lenses.

    • cartfan88

      You are replying to it’s me or alphs22…. Of course in their eyes Apple can do no wrong. And when they do just claim “everyone else does it so why single Apple out” We’ve seen this thread after thread. No surprise here.

    • blzd

      Gotcha. I saw him posting abnormally high on here and figured he might be an irrational Apple fanboy. Just thought I’d add a bit of objective clear thinking to the mess.

    • It’s Me

      Objective, clear thinking, like your OEM loves you?

      This is an thread discussing an Apple related issue. You comment because of an irrational desire to discuss Apple. That’s not just irrational, it sort of pathetic.

    • blzd

      What Apple issue? You’ve forgotten what article you’re even commenting about ROFL.

    • It’s Me

      Apple using sapphire displays is an Apple related issue.

      Another example of your clear thinking? And reading ability I guess.

      I recall reading that Android users trend towards lower education….thanks for fitting that stereotype :)

    • blzd

      It’s a rumor about a product. I don’t see what the issue would be. :D

      Looking forward to your many responses

    • cartfan88

      There’s pathetic going on and it sure isn’t coming from blzd.

  • rumthin

    All these display manufacturers claiming their glass is “scratch proof”. Yeah right!

    • alphs22

      Well if you take a diamond or carborundum to the sapphire screen you’re going to scratch it. Other than that…

    • Josh Brown

      It would be virtually scratch proof as only Diamond is harder. But the trade off is that sapphire is brittle. GG flexes and thus can take impact without shattering.

    • It’s Me

      …as long as you don’t ever allow your GC to get scratched, which would weaken the surface strength and allow it to shatter more easily.

    • Josh Brown

      Watch the video scratch it for 45 min.

  • mdram

    Wait…users will never need more then 3.5 inches of screen size…

    • Buzz88

      Or 64K of RAM

  • power_pizza

    How does sapphire compare to gorilla glass in terms of flexibility?

    • It’s Me

      Gorilla Glass should be more flexible, which is the main advantage GG has over sapphire it’s own. But…how often do we bend our phones?

    • power_pizza

      I thought that when a phone lands on it’s edge the frame compresses the glass. A more flexible screen could withstand that compression whereas a more rigid screen will crack under the pressure.

      I could be wrong but I thought this was one of the key strengths of the next version of Gorilla Glass.

    • It’s Me

      You are correct, and you are referring to sudden impact causing catastrophic failure. The fault with GG is that it is more susceptible to scratching which quick weakens its surface strength and makes it susceptible to the same catastrophic failure on impact. Even minute scratches significantly affect the ability to withstand impact. Sapphire would be much more resistant to these scratches. So, if one were to bind a thin layer of sapphire to a substrate like GG you would get benefits of both, with the veneer acting as protection for the sublayer. This is exactly what Apple and AdvancedGT have been developing, according to various sources, like patent filings and some public statements (from GT).

    • power_pizza

      Awesome. Thanks for the info!

    • Josh Brown

      Every time you drop it or sit on it, your phone flexes. All it has to flex is a microscopic amount for sapphire to schatter.

    • It’s Me

      I don’t sit on my phone. If I did, I expect the metal frame and body would help prevent enough flex to break it. If it was a plastic body that would be more of a concern.

    • Josh Brown

      Good for you. You have never dropped it either?

    • It’s Me

      I have, but even pre GG I never had one shatter.

    • Josh Brown

      To bad sapphire is more brittle than regular glass.

    • It’s Me

      Yup. Hopefully they can do something about that. Just like Corning made glass more scratch resistant.

    • It’s Me

      and yet has 4x the fracture toughness of GG.

    • Josh Brown

      Where did you find that ‘fact’

    • It’s Me

      ““Chemically strengthened glass can be excellent, but sapphire is better in terms of hardness, strength, and toughness,” says Matthew Hall, Director of the Center for Advanced Ceramic Technology at the Kazuo Inamori School of Engineering at Alfred University. “The fracture toughness of sapphire should be around 4 times greater than Gorilla Glass – about 3 MPa-m0.5 versus 0.7 MPa-m0.5, respectively.”

    • Josh Brown

      Aluminium and steel both flex.

    • Josh Brown

      Look up the picture of Gorrila glass almost bent in half. It is a law of physics that a harder the material the more brittle it is. Diamonds are the hardest substance on earth but I would not hit your wife’s wedding ring with a hammer.

  • Nik Iafrancesco

    Seems more likely this is for the phone display than some watch that may or may not exist.

    • Jean B.

      This said, sapphire cristal is very common on high-end watches.

  • Khalil J

    apple iphone users can look forward to at least 6 months before this phone is released, sapphire crystal and larger, one of the two, or neither. enjoy the wait peeps!

  • Accophox

    Just going to say – Sapphire doesn’t have much give – and will shatter more easily when subjected to pressure than GG.

  • L Joel

    Kudos to everyone for all the positve and productive conversation. . I must say I was expecting some sweet ibashing lol

    • beyond

      and Kudos to everyone for not getting any work done today :)

  • cartfan88

    So you remembered it, failed to mention it and decided to use an example from 2010 instead. Gotcha!

    • blzd

      Selective memory at its finest.

    • It’s Me

      I used many examples from across many years that show a pattern. You used one, which was admittedly noteable only because it broke their pattern.

      That’s like me looking at you and assuming that all Android users are i****s…one example doesn’t make a pattern. This is stuff you should remember from jk math buddy.

    • Sunny Lee

      Err… What? My brain hurts.

      Apple’s exception for the Mini Retina’s price hike is 1 out of the 6 examples you gave. Even with a very conservative estimate, justified price hike instances that did not occur can’t be more than 50. You’re comparing 1:50 to 1:(hundreds of millions of Android users)? What is logic.

      If sapphire crystal displays are indeed 10x more expensive than Gorilla glass, and people are expecting a .7 inch screen size increase, then it’s not wild to think the price will go up.

    • It’s Me

      I’m not comparing the two beyond claiming both are poor examples of pattern detection. 1 is not a pattern, whether you select one from 6 or 1 from a billion, 1 isn’t a pattern. Maybe that’s why your brain is hurting.

      What is logic? What’s math?

      Is it wild to expect an increase just because it’s Apple? Based on what pattern? Another pattern of one? Two? Out of?

    • Sunny Lee

      Why are you ignoring the total population size? Why are you talking about “1″ by itself? 1 is not a pattern, but 5/6 is, as is ~.999billion/1billion, with 5/6 being obviously less reliable. The one exception impacts predictability of the next outcome much more significantly if it’s out of 6 vs. 1 billion.

      Let’s not forget the position of the one exception; the fact that it happened just one step ago with the Mini Retina further questions predictability. A student getting A’s all semester and then an F in the final portion is less predictable of future performance than a student getting an F in the beginning and then A’s the rest of their semester.

      But moving away from the irrelevant and going back to the original argument, we were talking about whether Apple could do something out of their usual pattern and increase the price. cartfan88 and I are saying that they could, because they’ve broken patterns before. People were so sure that Apple would stick to annual updates until they released the iPad 4 after half a year, to the dismay of many iPad 3 buyers. Again, 5/6 is not reliable enough to say with reasonable certainty that there won’t be a price hike, and with the facts of sapphire crystal displays being much more expensive than Corning Gorilla Glass and the increased screen size, it wouldn’t be completely surprising if these was indeed a price hike.

      BTW, I’m not anti-Apple. I just think that saying with such confidence they won’t have a price hike because of small patterns in the past is a bit illogical. I enjoy my iPad Air, and regardless of any price hike, if the new iPhone has a bigger and noticeably better screen, I would certainly replace my Android phone.

    • It’s Me

      No, cartman is suggesting that the will, simply because it is Apple. He mentions one example in order to back up that presumption. You can look at that one example of the mini, from one generation ago, or you can look at other examples from the same generation (iPad, iPhone, Macbooks, iMacs, Mac Minis, Airport, iPods, etc) and see that even within that generation, a single example is not a pattern on when you should make a prediction. One occurrence is not a pattern on which to make assumptions. In fact, the reason that one example was notable, is because it not their norm. So why would you take that exception and try to assert it as their norm? You might not be saying that, but it is certainly what cartman is claiming.

      I am not saying they won’t increase the price, they have in the past. But I am saying that claiming to expect they will do it, based purely on a single example that itself is an outlier, is foolish. If the cost of any new component is such that it would significantly degrade their margins, of course one can expect they’d consider raising their price. But that isn’t what I was taking issue with. I was taking issue with this claim:

      “Knowing Apple, these two new iphones will be priced at $899 and $999+ considering the prices of their tiny 4 inch phones and the somewhat new tech involved.”, which was claimed with no other reason than “knowing Apple”, even though “knowing Apple” would be knowing that such an increase would be unusual.

    • Sunny Lee

      Ah I see. Then I was arguing for non-existent reasons, and for that I apologize. I thought you were on the far side of the spectrum, where a price hike is next to impossible, but you’re clearly willing to say that it’s a real possibility, just as not having a price hike is also a real (and greater) possibility.

      Android’s offerings have been pretty disappointing so far (which of course is just IMO). Duo cameras heart rate sensors don’t really excite me that much. With the specs currently at such a level than most people would rarely need (lol @ people wanting 2K displays on phones), I’m interested to see what other creative improvements come up this year.

    • It’s Me

      I agree that people still getting excited by a spec war, with specs that make no measurable difference in their user experience is unfortunate. Things like DPI that is unnecessarily high, drains the battery and is beyond what they could possibly differentiate or getting hung up on Mhz and core counts (welcome to the pentium 4 days of a decade ago).

      Having said that, there have been innovations of the last few years that I do appreciate. The most recent is Samsung (and Sony before that) making their phones water resistant is awesome (as someone that just came back from a beach vacation). Companies playing with battery chemistry instead of simply strapping on a bigger battery is another area I like, as are those that are customizing their processors and SoC for better efficiency and performance.

      Your points were valid and it was refreshing to find someone that wants to engage in honest, mature discussion and not simply throw out poorly thought out FUD, which is what I was originally responding to.

  • blzd

    Who did I pester with this comment? Does it anger you to know people are enjoying off contract phones for reasonable prices?

    • cartfan88

      Wouldn’t surprise me…you can see this type of behaviour from him all over this website and they all tend to end up with him saying something like “you are stupid and live in your parents basement”… I guess debate won and Apple defended in his mind.

    • It’s Me

      I will point out stupidity. Same thing when door knockers show up. I politely try to get rid of them. If they persist in trying to save me from the evils of my life then I might tell them off and point out the fallacies in their holy sales pitch.

      You guys are exactly the same. Trying to save us all from from the evils of Apple.

    • cartfan88

      Wow… So there’s even more to your agenda than Apple. Want to start lecturing us on how the sky is falling and global warming is going to annihilate us all also? Everything you say appears like a sermon from a high and mighty enlightened position.

    • It’s Me

      Project much? You door knocking missionaries come in and try to save us all and then want to accuse others of preaching? Do you even think about how ironic your sound?

      So you’re a climate change denier too? That actually makes perfect sense. Let me guess, you are a member of Westboro too…

      Wackos

    • cartfan88

      Thanks for proving my point. Next.

    • It’s Me

      Thanks for proving mine.

      Don’t you have funeral to protest?

    • FlamesFan89

      Oh wow. Trotting out the same lame insults you slung at me about a month ago.

      One.
      Trick.
      Pony.

  • sicsicpuppy

    make up your mind Syrup …4.7 or 5.5

    as if Apple would produce both sheesh

    Quoting Apple insider is moot

    • Plazmic Flame

      iPad Air and iPad mini say hello.

      They’ve done two screen sizes in the same product line before. They just might do it now for the iPhone.

  • Micco

    It’s about time Apple listens to the market and have devices with bigger screens. I tried an Iphone 5S and a 5C found them to be to small of a screen and phones are to slim. My perfect phone size I enjoy is 5″ – 5 1/2″. with wider screen dimension. And they need to get rid of the bottom home button, As a phone repair technician for over 10 years, I’ve repaired a lot of iphone home buttons and they’re a big problem, same with cheap fragile screens. Most of my business is screen repair of iphones. Samsung or other Androids far less as the Android phones have a bit better materials. Iphones screens are so cheap that you can buy a new one for $40 bucks, And android phones like Galaxy S4 are like $200. Goes to show you which one of the two have more quality to them.

    • KiwiBri

      are your $40 iphones the real deal or generic ones from China? Also, when you have a popular item you get markets of scale.. ie. parts may be cheaper.
      Dont go saying the pricier item is better quality. Doesnt hold true to a lot of things. Pricier could also mean lack of availability… etc

  • blzd

    Don’t take it so personally. You don’t need to defend your choice of phone with your life. I’m not trying to sell you anything or attack you but you choose to take personal objection to things said about a company.

  • blzd

    Funny, that’s how everyone here sees you. Sucks when you’ve become what you hate. :D

    • It’s Me

      I don’t go looking for android users in android topics trying to convert them, so uh, no.

    • blzd

      -apple missionary
      -annoying as $hit
      -preaching
      -technofaith
      -*actually brought up climate change (twice) in this very thread*
      -crap deserves a response and whines when he gets one

      Nuff said.

  • blzd

    You are exactly what you hate. Hypocrisy at its finest.

    • It’s Me

      Sorry, was this an Android story I was trying to spread anti-Android propaganda in and trying to evangelize the evils of Android? If it is, then I apologize, because that would be pathetic and it would make me pathetic for doing so.

      You need to look up words like hypocrisy before you use them. It apparently does not mean when you think it means.

    • realitycheck

      nightshift would be hella boring without hearing you guys argue… again.

  • FlamesFan89

    I take no offence. I’m laughing at you. But whatever you have to tell yourself…

    Cheers!

    • It’s Me

      You took offense enough to drop into another Apple story from last week just respond :)

    • FlamesFan89

      Um, nope. I read MobileSyrup almost daily. This story just happen to come up for me in Feedly and so I took a read, as I had skipped over it before.

    • It’s Me

      I read it daily too, but that doesn’t lead me to look for Android threads to post into simply to bash Android or preach the good news of Apple.

      But there tends to be a dedicated group of Android users that feel the need to proselytize in every single Apple story. In every Apple story, this same group comes in and preaches against the evils of Apple. I really cannot think of a better analogy than those Westboro wackos that feel the need to show up at every US soldiers funeral to spread their message.

    • FlamesFan89

      First off, you should stop using the Westboro church as your example. It is my understanding that those sick f… those crazy sh… hmmm, how to put this nicely, those naughty poo poo heads, don’t actually care about the cause they preach. They are essentially a group of lawyers that are doing whatever they can to incite actions towards themselves for which they can sue and make money. They aren’t evangelicals, they are just money grubbing, um, poo poo heads.

      Secondly, why do you care if people say bad things about Apple? So what? People need a villian, a heel. It is why, despite the ridiculousness of it, WWE is forever successful. They are excellent at making a heel for people to hate. Apple doesn’t do it on purpose, at least not as far as I know, but they are the chosen ones when it comes to receiving the hate. Part of it is the attitude that is all too often portrayed by not only Apple themselves, but many of their most devoted fans. It is one of superiourity. It’s the whole Gorgeous George persona. People love a gracious winner, people hate an arrogant one.

  • Anthony Roberts

    I wont even being to imagine how much these phones will cost….yikes….

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