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Today will be a tough day for RIM
It’ll be a tough day for RIM today. The stock market just opened and showing a dip of 12%, down to a ridiculously low $13.30 – sitting around the January 2003 era, and a far cry from the $144 price in June 2008. This now apparently brings their market cap around $7.01 billion. Investors clearly aren’t happy with yesterdays news of our once leading edge, once admired Canadian tech leader. Q3 numbers showed that 14.1 million smartphones were shipped and 150,000 BlackBerry PlayBooks – plus informing all that the anticipated BlackBerry 10 devices are now expected to “reach market in the latter part of calendar 2012″.
Analysts are going crazy this morning, stating that “This could be game over for the BlackBerry franchise”… which might be a bit extreme at this point, but I can see where they are coming from. However, RIM now has 75 million BlackBerry subscribers and hands down have one of the most secure email platforms.
Being Canadian we want them to have great success, but today will be a tough day to watch.
What are your thoughts on RIM’s future?
Update at 1:27pm: I just went to check the stock price to see if it’s improved. Stick hovering negative 12% today…
Update #2: closed down 11.17% to $13.44 – the last time RIM was at this price was middle of January 2004.
Watch the stock price here
Discussion
68 comments for “Today will be a tough day for RIM”
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RIM needs to integrate their software with Android. Until that happens they will continue to lose market share. Imagine a phone designed by RIM with an awesome QWERTY keyboard running Android with secure BES access. Ultimate phone right there.
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agree they need to integrate their software but think they need to also look at all platforms including tablets and computers. email and bbm to start.
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I don’t know I think it’s too late for that. Don’t forget RIM decided to join MS,APPLE,SOny and others in trying to take Google out starting with the Nortel Deal.
Of which Apple and MS turned around and used that to after
(sue) Google. RIM should have learned from Samsung,LG,HTC, many others and got on the Android train. After all Steve Jobs vowed to Spend EVER penny of Apple’s 42 billion to kill Android. That kinda says it all on how much a threat he saw it, and he was right ! look at Android today.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/07/apple-ms-rim-nab-nortel-mobile-patents-for-45-billion.ars
RIM really screwed the POOCH,
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RIM problems:
Is it Management and Execution; or Execution of the Management?
—–
RIM needs to learn from Nokia. They shoudnt release any more OS7 phones and shouldn’t spend those $200M in marketing. They should use that money to cover the price reduction from the current OS7 lineup; that will make them last longer.. hopefully until they release the next Phones.
NOT A SINGLE CENT TO THE DEAD OS7; put all the resources towards BB10 and make the phone come out ASAP!
Expect more BB in prepaid mode and $99Playbook.
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RIM?
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Android is not a solution. BB10 isn’t either. RIM needs to remove the OS and hardware all together. Focus on network solutions, provide BES to all, and BBM to all, and charge the service fees associate on a per user license level.
We’ve seen better OS’ come and die, most recently Palm’s WebOS. We’ve seen hardware vendors that are bigger and were better than RIM lose out like Nokia. RIM’s only value is in it’s push networking solutions. If they go back they can provide an unparalleled cross-platform cloud experience that can have the user friendliness of an iOS solution with the enterprise power like no other before it.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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The sad thing is so many jobs would be lost, but if its all about profits…
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rim already announced that, coming sometime in the spring (hopefully with the native email app for my playbook)
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This is super sad. We can’t seem to compete with them american companies but what pisses me off the most is the arrogance of Jim & Mike for not doing anything about it
They saw this storm coming 5 years ago & their arrogance will leave them with nothing
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EXACTLY! They disregarded and played down what a threat the iPhone was. While other hardware vendors took it seriously and aggressively sought to compete, RIM kept chugging out these very lame, underpowered, expensive phones that were horrendously boring and uninspiring.
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They need to take a step back, integrate Android in some nice mobile and comeback strong. I think that for now, saying “i have a blackberry” isn’t “hype” enough. In my POV, the name as to be cleaned of all the bad reputation they have, before they can come strong again… and that might not be down in 3 months.
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I disagree on the point of Android being the be-all end all.
What RIM’s biggest problem is execution.
You’re talking about a huge company with massive resources, yet their future their possible Hail Mary BB10 is delayed, just like the execution of Playbook.
If RIM can’t get even a single dedicated product launch right (Playbook/BB10) I doubt they’d even be able to get it right for Android even if they’re just dealing with software.
As a fellow Canadian, I want RIM to succeed. But if they can’t execute a single product launch correctly, they make themselves #HardToLove which just results in failure as other platforms pull ahead.
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RIM needs to go back to focus on what they are good at and not try to compete with verticals that were never fully their strong points. Enterprise, security and messaging.
Security is and will become an even greater issue with mobile, especially Android, in 2012 and beyond….this is a key opportunity for RIM to exploit.
They should cut their losses in trying to be a consumer product that is dragging them to their grave.
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true, very true.
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Unfortunately, the consumer and enterprise verticals are merging. Virtually all companies now support employees using their individual phones for business use and vice versa. The days of having two phones are rapidly disappearing.
A big chunk of this is driven by executives who insist on being able to use their iPhone or Android phone for work. RIMs old claim of owning the enterprise is quickly disappearing and if they try and retrench to that, they are surely doomed.
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I love RIM. My part-time job as a student is to sell Bell’s phone at a detailer. I never miss an occasion to praise RIM’s product cause they offer so much flexibility with e-mail, security and now, the OS7 is just fantastic, with android’s browser speed and iOS’s speed.
True, their product look the same as the old ones. But it’s the simplest way to deliver a sexy looking phone who is functional both for the professional and the consumer. Blackberry’s keyboard are definitely the easiest to use and there is none phone that can match their communication ability. Hell, President Obama have a blackberry.
With these BBX device(s), I hope RIM will catch up with what the competition has to offer, cause we can’t let only 2 giants lead the smartphone market. Competition is good, innovation is better. RIM loosed both but I hope it’s only temporary.
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@Ben
President Obama has a blackberry.**
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os7 is not fantastic. If it was RIM wouldn’t be at where they are right now
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OS7 isnt that bad, just not revolutionary, it still beats Froyo in terms of features and overall stability
can’t be beaten in security, just look at the evidence, nobody has rooted a BB yet, (and when they did the playbook, it took less than a week to patch it)
and the reason RIM havnt released os10 yet, is simple they need to get the playbook OS figured out first, then port it back to smartphones, fresh with android player, built in security, and an unparalleled user experience
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IMO, RIM’s never going to get the chance for BB10 and the promised Playbook update… They’re going to go bankrupt before they can get these promises fulfilled, and leave a lit of pissed off people in a lurch, unfortunately.
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Spent too much money on trying to get a hocke team.. not enough money on R&D
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I agree. He should have been researching where the industry was going and who was leading it, instead of worrying and going to court to try to get a Hockey team.
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Just because Android is a good OS doesn’t mean it has to be on every single phone. At this rate, sooner or later Fandroids will become the new iTards
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It does not HAVE to.
But why loose resources to develop an OS which is worse (such as BB7) when you can get Android for free?
The problem of RIM is that:
They don’t have a good OS.
They don’t have good hardware.
You need at least one of the two to compete.
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RIM is having a tough day everyday… Not only today!
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose
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Normally never post on forums but I am amused by all the Blackberry “CEO’s” who have ALL the answers today.
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RIM has stage 3 cancer, but is refusing medical attention.
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What makes people think that the blackberry is any more secure than anything else? Because they encrypt email until it gets to RIM’s servers? Https does that for everyone.
Good reputation they got without having to back it up.
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RIM is our Apple. RIM is the only competitive tech company in Canada. As a proud I Canadian I want them to be successful and bounce back. Honestly I was never fan of BlackBerry till I got the PlayBook. QNX is a great OS. I can’t wait for BB10 phones but this delay hurts. End of 2012 is just too long of a wait… as much I’m hooked on my 9900 I don’t see myself sticking with it till 2012. I was hoping to grind it out till Spring and buy the “BB London” once it comes out. On the bright side I hope RIM gets its act together brings a solid competitive product line with the BB10 phones.
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hey tigertrek, just curious to see what phone you would switch to if you gave up your 9900?
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Good question. I’ve tried all these new Android phones that comes out I keep going back to Bold 9900. There is no phone in the market right now that I’ll rather have.. yes that’s including the Galaxy Nexus. My brother has a Galaxy Nexus he doesn’t like it as much. Its too big and bulky. One thing I miss from Android phones is wifi hotspot. I’m a huge Leafs fan but I’m always on the road. I can stream Leafs game on most Android phones… I also stream Leafs games on my PlayBook but “Bridge” browser is just too slow. I hope they release BB OS 7.1 with hotspot soon. I can see myself having the Bold for as a pure communication phone and maybe a “Galaxy S3” sometimes in next year for multimedia. PlayBook + Bold 9900 is a great combo.
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The mobile market is not about device platforms, it’s about ecosystems. RIM can’t compete with Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook (and perhaps Microsoft.)
Their strengths are in their relationships with Enterprise IT, Mobile Operators, and teens (through BBM). But those assets are less relevant in a fashion-driven multi-screen and Bring-Your-Own-Device market.
RIM needs to focus on heterogeneous device management (Enterprise IT, Operator, and SMB) and secure “cloud” services (e-mail, IT, etc.), and make BBS cross-platform. They need to stop investing in a device platform, and probably in devices alltogether, breaking the current company into 2-3 much smaller companies.
However, there’s no way the current CEO’s will make the right decisions. RIM be sold at a firesale price, the BB brand will go the way of Palm, and another Canadian company will become foreign-owned and have it’s operations stripped down to the axels.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Why in the world would you say something like that? Try to separate your Mobile OS/Hardware bias from your opinions. One of Canada’s most influential and successful tech companies going under will do irreparable harm to our economy. RIM needs to get its act together and prove to investors that this company can still compete in the consumer market, while being a major player in the enterprise markets.
For you to be licking your lips at this death spiral when you presumably stand to gain nothing from it (if you’re Canadian you’re probably going to lose from it as our economy will weaken after losing a major player like RIM) other than being able to say “i told you so haha!” to your blackberry buddies while waving your iPhone/Android at them is pretty dumb.
Grow up and start looking at life beyond your phone.
Oh and for the record I’m an Android fan…
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relax people this is just wall street bullsh*t
I love my 9900 it is perfect for me
I love my 199$ playbook
much better than my 219$ ipod touch !
they are profitable
they grow their user base in absolute numbers
remember these are just phones
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a. Its not just phones… its a lot of canadian jobs and a lot of canadian investors money that they put into RIM becuase they wanted to support a canadian technology leader, who is utterly failing at innovating anymore.
b. I have a 9900 as well. Its ok, but its still lagging the android and ios alternatives. OS 6.1 (sorry… 7) SW and HW is not what is needed to get RIM through 2011 and (hopefully) half of 2012. BBX needs to release faster or they’re hooped.
c. their profits are WAY down and their proportional user base is shrinking (hence the lack of apps).
Overall RIM is in a load of trouble. Why they can’t innovate on pace with their competitors is the biggest problem. Why is this?
Is it bureaucracy (ie. their infamous legal dept)?
Is it poor leadership (ie. nhl teams vs. technology focus)?
Is it overly weak underlying technology architecture?
Is it poor corporate culture?
RIM is now where Apple was in 1996. They need new leadership and improved execution in a big way.
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“nhl teams vs. technology focus”
hey as a canadian your goal in life HAS to be proprietor af an NHL team… this is the ultimate COOLNESS
Lazaridis has put money in the best looking research building in the world!
http://www.google.ca/search?q=perimeter%20institute&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:fr:official&client=firefox-a&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=fr&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=wXjrTonzGKbz0gH1iZXrCQ&biw=1066&bih=757&sei=xXjrTvr6K-jL0QHG6ZXMCQ
there are other things than phones you know ?
the company is undervalued period…
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In reply to thetigertek,
Ya iv been there myself – trying the latest android phones only to come back to wanting a bold and playbook. I was really excited for the Galaxy Nexus but I know if I were to pick one up I would still be missing things I enjoyed about the 9900. Just simple things like how it sits comfortably in my hand and how I can reply to messages effortlessly. In the end, I don’t need access to 100′s of apps that’s why I’m still content with what blackberrys have to offer.
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What do you think will happen in 2012? The co ceo’s will run off with their entitled salary and of course people will be out of jobs if nothing changes.. Canada will be dipped into a larger recession and why is there no change? The hungry greedy business men already know what’s about to happen but the only thing they care about is their wallet… Ahhh 2012 I hope you really wont be the end…
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I was a loyal Blackberry supporter for 7 years but switched this fall because of there lack of innovation and willingness to keep up with the times. I am willing to go back to being a CrackBerry but want all of the features that modern smart phones provide.
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I like many others winced when I heard the news that Nokia was going to adopt WinPho for its smartphones – it still boggles my mind why they didn’t buy WebOS when they had the chance!
But in the context of RIM’s woes you have to respect Elop’s decisiveness and the buzz Nokia has generated around the Lumia. He knew it was a critical time and that they had to do something NOW! Time is the enemy for RIM but they don’t seem to see it that way.
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People have to remember that RIM offers secure Email and that they hold a contract with the government. That will never change because no cloud support could replace BES. As a consumer, sure black berry may be replaceable, as a business owner or government worker blackberry is more reliable. Also a thought to keep in mind, the intagration of a new software is possible however binding the bbm software and BES into it would be hell… For EVERYONE. That’s why the tablet was invented. Hell, the patent RIM owns for qwerty keyboards on a phone is worth billions! They are well off maybe not ahead, but they will be safe until atleast 2015. For another company to replace the BES and make an outstanding offer to the government with a PAINLESS conversion won’t happen.
I personally own iPhone, Black berry, and Android. Tho I don’t own webos I DID like it. And I spend most my time on my bb. They are a social tool more then anything else. When it comes down to browsing, and apps sure they do need some support. And I did read someones comments about wp7 and blackberry… That would be amazing! And before anyone says anything to that try using windows 8 on a tablet.
Cheers,
TheAmazing.
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Everyone knows what RIM needs to do. Why the hell can’t they get it done?
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i think they marketing strategy is zero are they stupid or what . they say all there secrets to public. they are stupid enough to say sorry our phones will be in 8 to 10 month not before. we waited a year and a half for iphone 5 because it wasnt ready they released the 4s . can they try to work like them at leasrt
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It will do harm to Canadian Economy.
But being slow and complacent is BEING Canadian.
Looking at our internet, telecommuncation, TTC, transit system, Technology companies (RIM/NORTEL)
Don’t get me wrong Canadian do create good stuff thats why we have RIM/NORTEL/ATI/bombardier in the first place. But which Canadian company had last over decades in the global market. (Not talking about Domestic monopoly BS)?
They will never be as fast as competitors because we grow slow and complacent happy to live in technological mediocrity.
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and you superman what did you create today ?
speed kills
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Don’t care if they’re a Canadian tech or not if they can’t compete in the big market.
Survival of the fittest and RIM sure ain’t the fittest.
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are you serious?? the world doesn’t revolve around Smartphones u ignorant POS!
what if ur dad, uncle, sister, mother, cousin, anyone u knew worked there? how would you feel? your talking about real people with real jobs..
u know what i hope the company you work for one day will be in the same position and we’ll see how you talk about your company then.. i hope you get fired for being so ignorant!
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@ kad
“relax people this is just wall street bullsh*t ”
Totally agree with you about this article. Ppl forget Rim still has alot of connection in the enterprise sector, and an ever growing overseas market. I dont think we can truly relie in the us market anymore There’s too much volatility and the consumer market is getting way over saturated with smartphone. Add to that the xtreme biases against blackberry. I dont think us media would be this harsh if Rim was based in the states, add to that they are trillions in debt.
I have travelled extensively overseas esp in southeast asia over the years, and Rim has wayy too must support there. Include that with the uk, and various parts of asia and middle east, along with loyal canadian support Rim is not going anywhere. If Rim continues to slide, aaccording to the us market, they will florish overseas. And Rim knows it.
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Oh man I think I may buy some stock after this thing evens out.
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According to the article at he bottom of my comment BlackBerry’s also have Carrier IQ. So please anyone with a BlackBerry try it just to verify the story.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-how-BlackBerry-owners-can-get-rid-of-Carrier-IQ_id24829
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RIM needs to be a service company the way IBM became a service company . The revenue from the service is huge . Right now 79 % of RIM’s revenue is from hardware & only 19 % of RIM’s revenue is from service ..they should make it 50 – 50 to survive . Also focus on third world & developing countries like India , Brazil , Indonesia etc where they can’t afford expensive I-Phones , I-Pads etc ..peopl will go for BB’s in a huge way in these countries. Forget North America ..the battle is already lost ..don’t spend more good money after the bad in NA .
75 million subscribers is not bad at all ..can easily make it 100 million if they focus in developing economies with huge populations like India , Brazil , Indonesia etc ..& then live of the service revenue stream it generates
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Where do you get those numbers TJ? 50-50, making 100 million and developing economies. What a bunch of horseshit. Just letting you know that your attempt to sound intelligent was not even a good try.
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The two CEOs must step down, they don’t seem to have the vision to move the company forward. They keep reacting to the market instead of leading it. They’re making a lot of poor execution moves which frankly is the problem. Also, they’re to tied up in the whole enterprise market. If they continue to only cater to that market they’re good as dead as both Android (with the help of the US NSA) and iOS will be enterprise and government ready in the next few years. With the NSA Android hardening project, they’ll replace Blackberry in government at least in the USA. So, really, RIM needs to step their game up and expand their market and stop hiding in a niche market if they wasn’t to survive. BB10 is in the right direction but out still needs proper directions to succeed and the two CEOa are not the people to do it.
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I’m a network admin for a company and I’m still hoping RIM finds a way to survive. I have to admit though, it’s getting tougher and tougher telling users to leave their personal iPhone/Android devices at home. I think we get at least 1 or 2 users who make the request to get company email on their personal devices.
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1st interview ” they will be out by end of summer 2011 .” 2nd interview ” they will be out in Q1 2012 .” 3rd interview ” they will be out by the end of year 2012 .”
Sorry RIM, but i always loved BlackBerry ,but what did you expect?
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@Johentie
” the world doesn’t revolve around Smartphones u ignorant POS! ”
Um ,LOL you are serious ?
RIM’s world does actually and if you think for a minute they care about the people more then the bottom line ( MONEY ) then you have been living in your own little dream world.
Investors and Top brass care little about who stay and who goes. It all the earnings !.
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When I see someone using a Blackberry I just assume they don’t know any better, or their three year contract is about to expire.
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sorry, but that is the most ignorant comment i have read today.
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In order to survive in the next comming years, 2 things that RIM must do:
1- Get rid of these 2 doorknob co-CEO’s Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis.
2- android comparable.
@- Without these move, it’s over … like in 3 years.
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I dont think people realize, they’re paying right now for problems of the past.
2-3 years ago. RIM has played catch up far too late in the game, but they’re still alive and very capable of delivering great products that are very profitable. It all depends on whether or not the higher ups want to listen. For the past several years they’ve had their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed.
I mean the Bold 9900 is a great device, better than my previous iphone – but right now the public perception of the company is being reflected in their share value.
RIM has allowed themselves to be a joke in the mobile market, so much so that even though their devices are now vastly superior, no one seems to care or even notice.
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I shorted the stock and I’m making profits.
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Quote GTP20
“When I see someone using a Blackberry I just assume they don’t know any better, or their three year contract is about to expire.”
On the contrary, I had an iPhone for 2 years wasn’t impressed. I tried Android, found the phones to be bulky and just annoying to use. Yes the display was lovely but that’s about all. Then I found my BlackBerry. Haven’t regretted it since. So no, I do “know better”. There is a market for BlackBerry devices, however, RIM needs to market them in a more intelligent way.
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so much negativity and ignorance about rim and their product…really sad to read all this garbage from you guys. wow just wow.
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Wall Street and many of you are short term thinkers, RIM is in the middle of a massive transition. It can not be rushed, remember the Playbook launch, they get only one chance and it has to be right not quick.
RIM is in the smartphone market, smartphones represent a small fraction of the mobile market, many are still using feature phones and over time will switch to smartphones.
RIM financial strength is solid and they have the assets to weather this transition.
BB10 phones will be great, those who have used the Playbook will attest to that.
RIM stay the course.
$19 Billion in revenue this year during a year they are struggling imagine if things were going well.
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